AD #3303 – Honda & Sony’s EVs Won’t Be Hondas; Mercedes Concept Doubles EV Efficiency; VinFast Reveals U.S. Pricing
April 14th, 2022 at 11:55am
Listen to “AD #3303 – Honda and Sony's EVs Won't Be Hondas; Mercedes Concept Doubles EV Efficiency; VinFast Reveals U.S. Pricing” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 11:15
0:07 Elon Musk Makes Offer to Buy Twitter
0:43 Honda Completely Changing Its Structure
1:35 Honda & Sony’s EVs Won’t Be Called Hondas
3:35 Chrysler Airflow Concept Gets a New Look
4:30 Genesis Concept Reveals Future EV Styling
5:23 Mercedes Concept Doubles EV Efficiency
6:18 Hyundai & Kia Update Their Large SUVs
7:30 New Process for Making New Tires from Old Tires
8:32 New Bill Would Require Government EV Recycling
9:27 VinFast Reveals U.S. Pricing
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ELON MUSK MAKES OFFER TO BUY TWITTER
Well it’s official. Elon Musk wants to buy Twitter. And what Elon wants, Elon gets. Tesla’s CEO made an offer of $41 billion in cash to buy the social media giant. Speculation grew that he wanted to take over Twitter after disclosing he bought more than a 9% stake in the company last week and subsequently rejected an offer to join Twitter’s board because it would limit his stake to nearly 15%. Elon wants to take the company private and says it needs to be transformed in order to survive.
HONDA COMPLETELY CHANGING ITS STRUCTURE
Honda is completely changing the way it’s structured. Up to now Honda was organized into business units focused on specific products, like cars, motorcycles, and power products that included lawn mowers and wave runners. Now, Honda is going to organize the company around specific technologies. That includes electrified products and services, batteries, energy, Mobile Power Packs, hydrogen and software/connected technologies. The Mobile Power Pack, by the way, is a portable battery for home use designed to be charged with renewable energy. Honda is changing its corporate structure to quickly spread these technologies across all of its product lines and to get them to the market faster.
HONDA & SONY’S EVs WON’T BE CALLED HONDAS
Speaking of Honda, when it announced its EV onslaught and sales goals that we reported on earlier this week, we were surprised that, even though it mentioned its EV partnership with General Motors several times, it never mentioned Sony. As you may remember, earlier this year Honda announced it was going to form a joint venture with Sony to make electric cars. So we reached out to Honda to get some clarification. Honda told us that its plans with Sony are still in place. And it dropped this little nugget. And I quote: “Importantly, the EV model we are planning to introduce from the JV with Sony will be sold under a different brand name, not Honda.” Close quote. Remember, those EVs with Sony will be made in Honda’s assembly plants, so it’s nothing short of astounding that they will not be sold as Hondas.
Be sure to join us for Autoline After Hours later today when GM’s president Mark Reuss will be on the show to talk all about GM’s EV strategy. A ton of you have submitted questions you’d like us to ask him, and while we can’t promise that we can ask all of them, we’ll try to get to the best. So join John and Gary for what promises to be a very insightful show on GM’s plans for an electric future.
CHRYSLER AIRFLOW CONCEPT GETS A NEW LOOK
Chrysler is giving its Airflow concept a new look. It debuted at CES in January wearing this bright white paint job, but it pulled the wraps off this black little number at the New York auto show yesterday. Called the Graphite, it features a deep black paint color with copper accents throughout the car, including on the 22-inch wheels and interior trim. The concept comes with AWD thanks to two 150 kW electric motors, but Chrysler says it’s designed to accommodate larger motors, and a battery developed to provide up to 400 miles of range. It will also be fully connected and have Level 3 autonomous capability, which can be upgraded over time with OTAs. This concept hints strongly at a production model that’s scheduled to launch by 2025.
GENESIS CONCEPT REVEALS FUTURE OF ITS EVs
Speaking of BEV concepts, check out this cool one from Genesis, called the X Speedium Coupe. It’s a look that’s been done in the past, but the fact that it’s a two-door with a long rear end and a roof line that slopes all the way to the back of the trunk, it really grabs your eye. You’ll notice a tie in to its other cars with two thin, separated bars that are picked up on the front and rear lighting, but it also uses lighting to help form its signature grille. I’m not a big fan of the execution on the Genesis here, but I think it’s a trend we’ll see more of as we transition to electric since EVs don’t need big grilles. Genesis says the X Speedium Coupe looks ahead to the next wave of EVs, so we’re likely to see some elements from it show up in future vehicles.
MERCEDES CONCEPT DOUBLES EV EFFICIENCY
Mercedes is showing off its EV efficiency in the new EQXX concept. It just traveled 1,000 kilometers or 621 miles on a single charge on public roads in Europe. And the battery’s state of charge was still at 15% at the end of the journey, which means it still had 140 kilometers or 87 miles of range left over. Its average consumption was 8.7 kWh per 100 kilometers or 7.1 kWh per 62 miles, which is more than double the best EVs on the road today. While this is impressive, we have to point out these aren’t WLTP or EPA numbers, it’s easy to hypermile out on the road, not on those tests.
HYUNDAI & KIA UPDATE THEIR LARGE SUVs
Hyundai and Kia are giving their biggest SUVs styling refreshes. As for the Hyundai Palisade, it gets a new front fascia with restyled lighting and grille area. Changes to the rear are a little more subtle, but you’ll notice some differences to the lower fascia. As for the interior, it features a new instrument panel, gauge cluster and interface design. The Kia Telluride also gets a new front end with a new grille, bumper, fog lamps and headlamp design. The rear features a new fascia, trim and taillamps as well. The big change to the interior is that the instrument and infotainment screens have combined into one unit, which also led to some changes to the air vents. Last but not least, Kia will offer a new X-Line trim for the Telluride that adds a little off-road flair.
NEW PROCESS TO MAKE NEW TIRES FROM OLD TIRES
Here’s a staggering statistic. Every year 1 billion tires reach their end of life. A lot of them get burned for fuel in cement factories. The rest pretty much end up in landfills. So Bridgestone Americas is partnering with a startup called LanzaTech to recycle them. LanzaTech developed a carbon capture and gas fermentation process that can turn tires into the chemicals needed to make ethanol, polyethylene, polyester yarn, and materials used in products like laundry detergent. LanzaTech already uses municipal waste carbon to make fuels, fabrics and packaging. It’s goal is to create a completely circular economy for carbon. And in this case, the goal is to use tires to make tires. Bridgestone’s goal is to make tires 100% recyclable by 2050. LanzaTech was founded in New Zealand, but is now headquartered in Illinois, and is about to do a SPAC.
NEW BILL WOULD REQUIRE GOVERNMENT EV RECYCLING
Speaking of recycling, a bipartisan bill introduced in the U.S. Senate would require the government to recycle the batteries used in government EVs. Automakers and automotive associations like MEMA, said they strongly support the legislation. The bill would require federal agencies to see that the batteries from EVs are reused or recycled. It says 95% of the materials in batteries can be recycled and that this would reduce the US’s dependence on foreign sources. In a time of hyper political partisanship it’s amazing to see that the bill is being introduced by three Republicans and a Democrat. Republican senators Mitt Romney, from Utah, Richard Burr from North Carolina, Bill Hagerty from Tennessee, and Democrat Gary Peters from Michigan are the authors of the bill.
VINFAST REVEALS U.S. PRICING
Vietnam’s VinFast announced pricing in the U.S. for its VF8 and VF9 electric vehicles. There’s two versions of each vehicle and the high-mileage VF8 with 292 miles of range starts at $47,700 and the high-mileage VF9 with 360 miles of range starts at $60,500. But the most interesting aspect is VinFast is offering battery subscriptions, on top of the purchase price, for the models in two different packages. The first is for customers who don’t drive much, it costs $35 a month for the VF8 and $44 for the VF9, which covers 310 miles of travel. After that, drivers are charged 11 cents per mile for the VF8 and 15 cents for the VF9. The other package, which allows unlimited range, costs $110 a month for the VF8 and $160 for the VF9. But the offer to subscribe 100% of the battery is only good until the end of 2023. After that, VinFast will offer to rent 50% of the battery and sell the other half when purchasing a vehicle. The first models go on sale in the second half of this year.
But that’s it for today’s show. Thanks for making Autoline a part of your day.
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Comments (31)
April 14th, 2022 at 12:21 pm
If Honda is going to car the Sony/Honda something other than Honda, could that be Acura? It will probably sell more in Acura than Honda price range.
April 14th, 2022 at 12:23 pm
That Genesis has more than a little bit of a DB9 look to it.
April 14th, 2022 at 12:32 pm
So is the new Honda Sony car going to be called a Soanda or a Haony?
It’s nice to see Bridgestone trying to do something with used tires, some tire piles have turned into environmental disasters and it seems like such a waste to just bury them.
April 14th, 2022 at 12:50 pm
3 Are Soanda and Haony two or three syllables?
April 14th, 2022 at 12:55 pm
If the Biden Administration is going to stay on this path to eliminate ICE engines feed by gasoline. Why doesn’t the Federal Government and EPA mandate that all 2024 and beyond ICE vehicles to be sold in the United States be E85 compatible? E85 is selling for a $1.00 per gallon less than regular gasoline around the country. This would reduce the financial strain on American households and companies currently unable to trade up to a BEV. Also OEM’s could offer retrofit kits for their late model vehicles to become E85 fully compatible. This would help out dealerships with additional service business and the consumer’s resale value of converted vehicles using cleaner E85 fuel.
April 14th, 2022 at 1:05 pm
Bridgestone and other tire companies should be responsible for recycling their products at the end of their lifecycle. The rubber compounds in tires can be recycled into creating new asphalt for the countries pothole filled roadways.
I hate when the road crews place loose pothole filling material on the roadway and expect that motorists to compact the loose material by driving over it to fill those potholes. This is the most stupidest method and most cause many damaged windshields and headlights from this loose pothole filling material flying up off the roadway. This method of pothole repair should be outlawed IMO!
April 14th, 2022 at 1:34 pm
Perhaps the ‘not Honda’ name is preparing for direct to buyer sales. Cutting out the dealers.
April 14th, 2022 at 1:38 pm
5 E85 has less energy per gallon than gasoline, so flex fuel vehicles get only about 2/3 to 3/4 the mpg on E85 that they get with E10. If the car uses regular gas, you aren’t going to save money with E85. With a premium burner, you would.
April 14th, 2022 at 1:39 pm
7 Interesting thought, if the “not Honda” name is not Acura.
April 14th, 2022 at 1:59 pm
Sean; We keep hearing about how EV batteries are recyclable yet do you know of anyone currently doing it? It would be interesting to hear from a rep and hear how they plan to ramp up in the coming years for the level or recycling demand that will be needed.
I had seen where tires were being recycled and made into playground surfaces and pavement. Biggest difficulty was separating the steel belts.
Elon buying Twitter would likely be a good thing. Must be nice to have 41 Billion cash laying around.
April 14th, 2022 at 2:09 pm
Lex ,because we know the minute they did that (E85) the price would double overnight. Just like it it did with diesel in the 70s when many manufacturers started making vehicles that could use it. they will always be there to capitalize on whatever fuel is used,
April 14th, 2022 at 2:19 pm
10. He doesn’t have $41b lying around. He has “only” about $3b in cash and liquid assets. Most of his wealth is tied up in Tesla. In order to buy Twitter, he’d have to liquidate some of his Tesla shares or do an LBO.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-14/musk-needs-massive-loan-or-big-tesla-stock-sale-to-buy-twitter
April 14th, 2022 at 2:32 pm
@5 – Lex, a lot of engines are not compatible with E85. None of your gas-powered yard equipment can handle it. And most vehicles are not compatible with E85.
I’ll share with you a simple life-long truth. Every government mandate has consequences and unintended ills. I’m not saying government shouldn’t issue mandates, but they over-simplify the complexities (and the media lack the technical know-how to fill in the blanks).
April 14th, 2022 at 2:38 pm
5,13 et al, If E85 use increased even 20%, the price of corn for food would increase immensely.
Lawn equipment, motorcycles, or anything else with a carburetor wouldn’t even run on E85 without re-jetting, never mind issues of compatibility of materials in the fuel system.
April 14th, 2022 at 2:59 pm
OK Sean, I give up, what is a SPAC?
April 14th, 2022 at 3:17 pm
Anyone else confused as of how vinfast subscription works? Battery subscription, does that mean they are swappable? How do they know how many miles are driven per month, monthly report or average? So you buy a car but the battery you have to buy at the end of financing period? Thoroughly confused.
April 14th, 2022 at 3:20 pm
#15. Special Purpose Acquisition Company. Also known as a reverse merger. It’s a “blank check” shell corporation designed to take a company public without going through the traditional initial public offering process. I.e., a way to get stock issued far faster. All the EV startups are doing it.
April 14th, 2022 at 3:46 pm
SPACs are a way ‘too good to be true’ characters like Nikola were able to fleece non-technical investors.
April 14th, 2022 at 4:40 pm
I too was confused about the Vinfast subscription story. If it works out to help folks avoid a $1,000 a month car payment for an expensive EV that is not driven very far it sounds good, but need I clarification. A simple device to track milage is probably inserted into the port under the dash. Insurance companys now offer this to save on premiums for those that do not drive much, since many now work from home. With vehicles so expensive now I feel that creative financing/rental is long overdue to make them afordable.
April 14th, 2022 at 4:55 pm
Somehow, if I were to buy or lease a pricey EV, I don’t think my first choice would be from an upstart in Vietnam. I we’ll see how that goes.
April 14th, 2022 at 5:13 pm
There is a lot of interest in EVs. Recently we drove over 1,700 miles from Illinois through some southern states, and back to Illinois. This was in a 2021 Cadillac CT4-V with all wheel drive. The overall average fuel economy was 32.0 miles per gallon. The car has a 17.5 gallon tank. That provided 560 miles range, and filling the gas tank took less than 10 minutes. A Tesla Plaid (one of the few that has this high range) has the range of 280 to 320 miles depending on whether it is claimed by Tesla or testing by Car and Driver. With a V3 Supercharger, the Tesla will charge to 80% in 25 minutes. Charge on a standard charger is 14 hours.
April 14th, 2022 at 5:22 pm
@19 – Joe, more and more new vehicles are being equipped with internal modems and functions similar to GM’s OnStar. This enables Over The Air software updates and can allow Big Brother to monitor your driving and usage of various functions.
While you may think changes are long overdue, a lot of people are concerned that they will be paying $50,000 or more for a vehicle AND be held hostage to the OEM to use the functions in their vehicle… while the OEM is selling your usage data to 3rd parties (advertisers, insurance companies, etc).
In other words, the future of vehicle ownership may be akin to a time share condo. You pay into upfront, and get dinged with fees every time you use it. To paraphrase Don McLean, “the day the auto enjoyment died”
April 14th, 2022 at 6:37 pm
21 Wow, a 4 cylinder small sedan gets only 20% better mpg than a sports car with a big V8. Just kidding. That’s about what I would expect. My C8 gets about 27 mpg on an 1100 mile trip going 75-80 on the interstate, and I’d expect about 32 for your CT4-V. Your car, with the smaller engine, would do much better than mine in low speed/stop and go driving.
April 14th, 2022 at 8:21 pm
The color and interior on the Chrysler concept looks incredible, but the front face and rear are a snooze fest! The side profile looks a little sporty, but the overall styling, IMHO, are not memorial or as exciting as others in that size, class and specification. The EV6 is sporty, the Ionic 5 has a kind of nostalgic look to it, the Mach-E has Mustang favor and the ID 5 is a somewhat interesting VW jelly bean. Yet, the Airflow has an ‘also ran’, ‘I got one too’ vib to its styling. This concept is more Pacifica/Town and Country/Voyager, then Gangster/Mob Boss Chrysler 300M! Why couldn’t the Airflow have more of the face and feel of the 300/Magnum? I know that aerodynamics play heavily in the design of EVs, but the Lightning, R1T, Silverado EV and other BEVs have tall, blunt faces and this has not stopped their electric aspersions. This concept’s front styling, puts me in the mind of the defunct Eagle brand at best, or the Plymouth brand at worst. The Chrysler side of Stellantis Can. Do. Better! Isn’t the Chrysler brand supposed to be aspirational! Smh
April 14th, 2022 at 8:37 pm
#24.) 2022 Chrysler 300, not 300M!
April 14th, 2022 at 8:54 pm
24,25 Maybe Chrysler people will see your comment, and change things before anything hits production, and make the styling more interesting.
Actually, what I recently bought, a Toyota Highlander hybrid, is about the ultimate snooze fest, styling-wise, but it will serve the purpose of carrying my toys, while getting very good mpg for its size. My C8 still gets lots of compliments, even though they have been on the road for 3 years. Variety in cars, as it were.
When the current Chrysler 300 first arrived, it struck me as looking like a Bentley from the 60s or 70s. I still like the looks of it, even after, what, 15 years.
April 15th, 2022 at 8:25 am
Mark Reuss seems very candid on AAH yesterday; might be worth your while to watch the show if you are so inclined.
April 15th, 2022 at 8:41 am
26.) I thought the same about to 300 too when was introduced, but it’s kind of come into its own, especially after Chrysler was purchased by Fiat, IMHO. If a direct, clearer connection between the Airflow and 300 was made, it would make the vehicle stand out more from the crowd of extreme, wind tunnel influenced EVs that are coming to market. The tall, blunt face trucks and pick-ups use active shutters, to control air flow around the front of those vehicles. Why couldn’t Chrysler do the same here? To me, the front of this concept looks more like the Chrysler 200 or the Pacifica, then a vehicle one would choose over a Model Y, Mach-E, the EV Equinox, EV6, Ionic 5 and (arguably) the ID 5! I just sit back and admire the 300, the Charge and it’s variations (Redeye, SRT8, H’CAT and Demon) and turn to this and I’m a little disappointed! Now I’m sure it is a technical marvel and will do all that they say it will, but unless it has a MUCH better price point, I’m looking at one of the other BEVs mentioned earlier, and will no doubt pay more to do so. That’s why Ford did what they did with the Mach-E. It was going to be their first serious EV, but it’s styling was modeled after the Focus/Fusion (like the E-Max). As great as their designs were, I can see why Farley ordered them to stop, start over and use the Mustang as the template. It has been a sales success, despite its naming controversy! Yet, look at what they are charging for the Mach-E. Who would pay between $40-60K+ (Mach -E GT) for a Focus or a Fusion and then wait up to 18 months to get it? I think it might be safe to say, not many! What about the Airflow? How many would be willing to pay $60K for a loaded Airflow Limited? Looking at this concept, I have a hard time seeing it!
April 15th, 2022 at 8:54 am
27 I watched it live. It was great, an actual conversation, rather than so much BS, like the dealer organization guy.
April 15th, 2022 at 9:07 am
28 I’m glad I’m not in the market for an EV now, because there is so much new stuff “in the pipeline.” If I bought now, I might be missing something I’d like better. Also, competition should force moderation of prices. Tesla won’t be able to continue their almost daily price increases forever, now that they are seeing more real competition. I look forward to see the Lyriq “in person.”
April 15th, 2022 at 11:53 am
I was talking with a man who manufactured batteries in East Texas last night. He says that many of the elements in batteries are toxic waste and his question is “How much are we improving the environment with the use of batteries?” After manufacture and disposal?