AD #3459 – Honda, Toyota Lose Most Customers to Tesla; BYD Outsells VW in China; BYD Moves Into Mexico

December 1st, 2022 at 11:51am

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Listen to “AD #3459 – Honda, Toyota Lose Most Customers to Tesla; BYD Outsells VW in China; BYD Moves Into Mexico” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 8:58

0:00 Tesla Semi Rolls Out on the Red Carpet
0:34 GM Plays Long Game with AVs
1:13 Honda, Toyota Lose Most Customers to Tesla
2:41 BYD Moves Into Mexico
3:22 BYD Outsells VW in China
3:59 Canada Becoming EV Raw Material Powerhouse
4:36 BMW Invests in U.S. Copper
5:53 Honda Puts ADAS on Steroids
6:39 OEMs Need to Commonize EV Components
7:33 BYD Launches the Corvette 07

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17 Comments to “AD #3459 – Honda, Toyota Lose Most Customers to Tesla; BYD Outsells VW in China; BYD Moves Into Mexico”

  1. DanaPointJohn Says:

    Seeing how Toyota and Honda don’t make a BEV (No, don’t bring-up the BZ4X!) it isn’t any surprise Tesla is taking customers from them. Come back in 5 – 10 years and see how high flying Tesla is then. The OEMs are in the early days of releasing electric vehicles, and those that truly believe in this technology will gain market share pretty quickly when their line-ups get filled with them.

  2. Ziggy Says:

    BYD should have sprung for an additional 0 and made it the Corvette 007 as long as they are stealing names! And who knows, maybe the future Corvette SUV will end up looking like this one anyway.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Not only will EV components become commodity items, but the replacement of ICErs with EVs will result in huge unemployment numbers some places, like my original home town of Kokomo, Indiana. There are thousands of Chrysler employees now making 8-speed longitudinal transmissions and 9-speed transaxles. Soon, they will be building 4 cylinder engines there. Even if they make the gear reduction units for EVs in Kokomo, it won’t take nearly as many people as making the current complex automatic transmissions.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Don’t the Chevy Bolt, Kia Niro EV, and Hyundai Kona EV already share a lot of components?

  5. XA351GT Says:

    If the US government is serious about protecting US jobs and companies they need to do everything they can to keep out Chinese vehicles . they will flood the market with cheap vehicles Just like the Japanese did in the 60s and 70s and the Koreans in the 80s and 90s. Ask a Australian about their auto industry or better yet lack of it, because of cheap cars flooding in from South East Asia . Ford , Holden and even Toyota folded up shop because they couldn’t compete financially with vehicles being made penny on the dollar vs, local made ones. What little industry there is left will be gone.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 The total Australian car market is only a little over a million, so unless they had an export market, making cars in the country would be a losing proposition. Except for low volume “specialty” stuff, there is no way they could compete. They have some business converting American pickup trucks to RHD.

  7. Wim van Acker Says:

    @Autoline Team: what a great Live show with Jeep leader Jim Morrison. Very interesting!

  8. wmb Says:

    @5 & 6.) I have a hard time seeing Chinese vehicles flood a market with lower priced BEV vehicles, when the EVs they sell in their home market cost just as much as those in the markets they want to break into. While the cost may eventually come do, EV tech today is expensive where ever you are! IMHO, the greater risk is them coming to market with more high quality EVs and more individual choices, before the local OEMs do. Sean has said in a number of shows, that their are hundreds of EV startups in China and I would would imagine there are varying levels of quality in between the different companies. If one of the high end companies like Geely or BYD (while not necessarily startups), where to bring some of the high quality products to the North America, Europe and other parts of the world, with the many different products that they have, I believe they will find buyers even if they have to pay a little bit of a premium for them! While cheap labor/products may have been hallmarks for Vietnamese,Taiwan and Chinese products in years past, such is not the case for electronic, digital and EV. They are just as expensive coming from those regions of the world, as they are from anyplace else! And since they know that buyers will pay top dollar for what build, I don’t see the rationale that they would expect anything less from a business perspective.

    The funny thing with the US IRA, it’s amazing how other countries are doing things to make themselves more competitive and how quickly they are doing so! I applaud Canada’s efforts to make themselves more valuable in the EV race. As you can see, it’s not demanding that another country stop an incentive to their citizens, it’s making their country and what they produce/export more attractive and there increases their negotiating power for the products/services/rare earth materials that they have. Way to level the playing field on your own terms Canada!

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 Canada will probably run into some NIMBY issues with the nastiness of mining and processing minerals, but, hopefully, can work things out. The world needs sources for these materials other than China, and operations in Africa controlled by China.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 The show was interesting, but the Jeep guy seemed to be putting out some BS, like saying that, what, 30-some percent of Wrangler owners drove them off-road. To wit:

    “Mark Allen, head of design at Jeep, told ABC News in September 2019 that 10% to 15% of customers take their Wranglers off-road.”

    Even that seems high, given that none of the 5 Wrangler owners I know drive them off-road. They just bought them for the “image,” and because it’s fun to take the doors off in the summer.

    I wish there had been some discussion about the powertrains, especially how the new “hurricane” turbo six performs, compared to the 5.7 V8. We’ll be hearing more about that, as a lot of the sixes are on the road after the “hemi” is discontinued.

  11. wmb Says:

    @9 & 10.) I would like to hope that after all this time mining underground, there would have been some breakthroughs and improvements in the process. One that is not so dangerous to the environment and the workers doing the job.

    We have a Jeep in our household now and had a Liberty in the past. I don’t even think we have ever parked either of them on the grass, let alone gone farther off road! They are/were my wife’s vehicle and she likes the image too (also she doesn’t want grass or dirt in the vehicles tires and thrown up of the body of the vehicle)! My wife’s she has leased several Jeeps and never taken them off road. Matter of fact, as I think about it, over the past 40 plus years of my life, of all the Jeep owners of my life none have EVER taken full advantage of all the things that Jeeps are capable of, like going off road! The closest thing to it, was a co-work who had a Wrangler two door, which had the big wheels on it and loved to take the top down of sunny days, no matter how hot it was outside. He said that he loved his vehicle, especially with the top down, because it made him LOOK like he could go rock crawling, even though he never would (he was a city boy like me)! They own person I know of, but near met, that took took full advantage of their vehicles capabilities, was another co-worker, years later, who would come to work with the vehicle covered in mud and dirt! She would say that it was because her husband would go off reading on the weekend, but never wash the truck when he was done! They drove a Nissan Xterra, though!

  12. Lambo2015 Says:

    10-11 Off-roading is a risky activity with a $45,000 vehicle that may not be covered by insurance if used on a closed course. I would bet to get anywhere near 30% he was including all Wranglers still on the road. Cause when you go to those places like sand dunes, hill climbs, rock trails most are older heavily modified Wranglers. Yeah the average new Wrangler buyer with a loan and warranty I doubt many take off-road. You always have the few real wealthy folks that take a brand new Jeep dump another 20K in mods and do crazy stuff but I’m sure thats the exception. So yeah Jeep should be concerned with brands like the Bronco and Scout because as far as off-road capability doesnt seem it makes a difference to 80%+ of the buyers. So the image and ability to drop the top and remove the doors seems to be the draw. Actually GM could get in on the action and revise the Blazer with those same features without quite the off-road capabilities and provide a better ride and handling with those same features of a convertible and removeable doors. I wonder if buyers would care that it cant rock climb but gives a better ride and handling as the Wrangers are nothing special in that dept.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    My sister leased two Grand Cherokees early in their existence, and then had a first generation Liberty for about 10 years. She now has a MINI Countryman. None of them have gone off-road, at least while she had them.

    Most of the Broncos I see are Bronco Sport, which is basically a restyled Escape, with added “character.”

    Roman Mica’s description of the allure of “quiet” off-roading of electric EVs on AAH was interesting. I suspect a lot of hard core off-roaders like noise, and remove the mufflers from their vehicles, so the people liking the quiet might be out of luck much of the time at the off-roading parks.


    11) Here is a list of all BYD electric vehicles and their pricing. They have a full line up and every single one is very cheap compared to anything produced in the USA.

    If you note though, these vehicles have very slow acceleration times comparable with cars from the 80s. This means that they are using small motors which uses less power and thusly does not need a huge battery for a given range. That makes it cheap. They are designed for city driving with limited top speeds which also reduces power consumption and therefore does not need a large expensive battery. The USA market is not a city driving type of country. Everyone is convinced that their SUV needs to do 0-60 in a nano second and have a top speed of 200MPH. So BYD would have to make these cars with larger motors and correlating larger battery for the USA market. They would probably still be cheaper than traditional US OEMS as they have a lot of headroom in the price, but maybe not appreciably so.

  15. Lambo2015 Says:

    14 I also have no doubt that the Chinese can bring EVs to the US at a cheaper price than Domestics. For One, they have done a good job of preparing for EVs and bought mineral mines and strategically positioned themselves to have access to raw materials. Secondly, they have a lower labor cost and thirdly, they dont have the costs associated with such things as OSHA, workman’s comp, Social security, employee Healthcare, unemployment etc. Lastly I would be willing to bet whatever they bring will not be break the upper half of the list of safest cars to drive.
    To your point I dont see many “city only” type cars doing well in the states. Those small boxes that make for great inner city commuting will never be much more than Uber or taxi type vehicles. When people buy in the states they need the capability to get on the hwy and have a safe 75mph vehicle. Not going to happen in those enclosed golf carts. But the BYD Corvette on todays show shows they can do it.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 Interesting list of BYD cars. It look like many of them would have adequate performance for the U.S., but some would not. A number of “compact SUVs” got 10+ second 0-60 times in CR’s tests.

    15 Chinese car companies wouldn’t be paying for health care, because the country has universal health care like nearly every “wealthy” country except the U.S., but yeah, they would be much more lax in employee health and safety requirements.

  17. wmb Says:

    #14-16.) My apologies for I am just seeing these posts and you have no doubt moved on to today’s story of AD. I looked at the link of the BYD EVs, yet the prices of the vehicles shown were new from 2018-to-2019. In that amount of time, both Tesla, Ford and Rivian, have all increased prices due to the increase of raw materials, up to as much as $12K in some cases. When you add that increase to those vehicles, even the least expensive model three to four years places it at a point may raise eyebrows! Imagine a vehicle the size of the EcoSport or Traxx, price competitive to the Escape, Equinox, Edge or Blazer! In the EU or UK, that might not be an issue, but in the US, that might give customers pause! My point was, why would a Chinese automaker reduce the price of their vehicles, to sell them in other market, when people know the tech is expensive AND buyers have have not problem paying? When I say this I really mean early adopters. Mainstream buyers may not be so quick, to spend big money on a vehicle to small to fit their needs.