AD #3524 – Price War Spreading Fast In China; GM All In With ChatGPT; Ferrari Purosangue Opens Up
March 13th, 2023 at 11:58am
Listen to “AD #3524 – Price War Spreading Fast In China; GM All In With ChatGPT; Ferrari Purosangue Opens Up” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 9:57
0:08 Price War Spreading Fast in China
1:05 China’s Xi Jin Ping Warns CATL
1:59 Britain Risks Losing Out with EVs
3:28 GM All in With ChatGPT
4:30 Rivian Wants Different Deal with Amazon
5:27 Ferrari Purosangue Opens Up
6:55 GMC Hummer Gets Bi-Directional Charging
7:47 Solid State Could Change the Battery Market
8:35 U.S. EVs Average Nearly 300 Miles
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PRICE WAR SPREADING FAST IN CHINA
In January Tesla kicked off a price war in China that is spreading far faster and more widespread than anyone anticipated. CarNewsChina reports that 30 brands have cut prices outright, have offered discounts, insurance subsidies or even gift packages to try and get more shoppers back into showrooms. And it’s not just with electric cars. Inventory of ICE cars piled up last year as consumers relied on government subsidies to buy electrics, so prices of ICE cars are falling too. The price cuts range anywhere from $1,000 to $15,000, and this is the last thing the Chinese auto industry wanted to see. Last year was a tough year for the industry as strict Covid controls hurt sales. And so far this year the market is not recovering as quickly as hoped, and that’s why the price war keeps on spreading.
CHINA’S XI JIN PING WARNS CATL
Speaking of China, President Xi Jin Ping, sent a clear warning to CATL, that the battery company may be growing too quickly and gaining too much power. Xi hinted that new regulation was needed to ensure the battery market developed in a “steady and prudent manner” instead of the boom-town mentality that persists right now. The Chinese leader has also cracked down on tech giants in the past when he thought they were accumulating too much wealth and power. CATL controls 37% of the global EV battery market and is working with Ford to build a battery plant in the U.S. It also has supply contracts with Mercedes, BMW and Hyundai. But when the President of China tells you you’re growing too fast, we’re pretty sure that CATL will step on the brakes.
BRITAIN RISKS LOSING OUT WITH EVs
Meanwhile, on the other side of the planet, the situation is looking grim for the British auto industry. The SMMT, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, says Britain may not be able to compete in making EVs unless the government comes up with subsidies like the U.S. and the EU are offering. Several automakers including Tesla and BYD decided to not build plants in the UK because of Brexit. When the UK was part of the EU, it could export vehicles and parts to the rest of Europe without any tariffs. Now that Brexit took the UK out of the EU, exporting cars from Britain to the continent makes them uncompetitive on price. One of the SMMTs suggestions is for Britain to negotiate more free-trade agreements.
GM ALL IN WITH CHATGPT
GM’s VP says that “ChatGPT is going to be in everything.” Most automakers will use the technology to create a sort of AI in-car personal assistant that’s interactive and will make communicating with the vehicle much more natural. We’ve reported how several Chinese automakers are using a similar system, developed by Baidu and Geely, but GM is going more direct to the source. It’s working with Microsoft, who invested billions in ChatGPT founder OpenAI, to come up with possible uses for the technology. Specifically, GM says it could be used to explain how vehicle functions work that would normally require reading through the owner’s manual or making it easier to integrate functions like a garage door opener or work calendar. It seems like automakers could view this technology as a way to eventually make older cars appear more up to date even as they age.
RIVIAN WANTS DIFFERENT DEAL WITH AMAZON
Rivian is trying to rework its deal with Amazon, according to the Wall Street Journal. The EV startup got a huge boost in 2019 when Amazon agreed to buy 100,000 electric vans through 2030. The vans, which were customized for delivery by the two companies, are made at Rivian’s plant in Illinois. But to get the deal with Amazon, Rivian agreed to sell all of the vans it makes to Amazon until it fulfills the order. However, Amazon is only buying 10,000 vans this year, which is at the low end of previous forecasts. So Rivian wants to end that exclusivity deal, and sell vans to other customers. But how many more vans could it sell is the real question. Rivian says it’s aiming to sell 50,000 vehicles this year, which also includes the R1T and R1S.
FERRARI PUROSANGUE OPENS UP
Ferrari is getting ready to launch its first SUV, the Purosangue and Magna revealed it’s going to supply it with some pretty cool door technology. It features SmartAccess on the rear suicide doors, which is basically like smart power doors. In the Purosangue the amount of effort required to open or shut the doors will always be the same because the system can detect when the vehicle is on a hill and automatically adapt the required force. It also won’t allow the doors to be slammed and will catch them from flying open in the wind. Magna says several other Asian and North American automakers will launch with SmartAccess this year and that it also offers several other features, including gesture control, obstacle detection and keyless entry.
GMC HUMMER GETS BI-DIRECTIONAL CHARGING
Bi-directional charging is turning out to be a hot topic in the EV community and the Hummer EV is next on the list to offer it. Bi-directional charging allows owners to use their EV to run their home when the power goes out. It also allows them to charge up with cheap electricity when demand is low, and sell it back to utilities at a higher price when demand is high. Certain trims of the Hummer SUV and pickup version now come standard with a 19.2-kilowatt Level 2 AC onboard charger, enabling bi-directional charging. It’s able to provide up to 6-kW of power to other vehicles with an optional plug accessory. In addition to that, GMC is also now offering another accessory that will allow the Hummer to provide 3-kW of power for appliances.
SOLID STATE COULD CHANGE THE BATTERY MARKET
The market for solid state batteries in electric vehicles could grow fast. Solid state batteries are safer, charge faster, and are more energy dense than conventional lithium-ion batteries. A report from IDTechEx says the market for solid-state batteries could be worth $8 billion within a decade. The demand will be mostly driven by electric vehicles, but they’ll also be used for energy storage systems and consumer electronics. While today’s battery manufacturing is dominated by Asian companies, the U.S. and Europe are competing heavily in the development of solid state batteries, and could emerge as significant players if the technology truly catches on.
U.S. EVs AVERAGE NEARLY 300 MILES
Range anxiety is one issue that holds many people back from buying an EV. But automakers continue to add more and more range, especially in the U.S. Bloomberg reports that the average range of EVs in the U.S. is 291 miles, the highest in the world and a third higher than the global average. EV range in the U.S. has quadrupled since 2011, when the only mass market vehicle available was the Nissan Leaf, which had 73 miles of range. Today, the Lucid Air has the longest range at 516 miles. And five models, with an average range of 309 miles, accounted for 70% of EV sales in the U.S. last year, the Tesla Model Y, 3, & S, the Ford Mach-E and Chevy Bolt.
But that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for tuning in.
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Comments (23)
March 13th, 2023 at 12:21 pm
Bi-directional charging could be great for a power outage, but I wonder how it will affect battery life if you were selling power back to the grid on a daily basis. With a battery being in the 20k range I dont think I would opt for that feature unless I made enough money to replace the battery when it was worn out.
March 13th, 2023 at 12:29 pm
i think bidirectional is good for when you have a power outage. Selling power when it’s expensive doesn’t seem worth it to me. If you have a 100 kWh battery and are willing to use 20% you would sell up to 20 kWh a day of power. I think you’d be lucky to get $0.05 a kWh or $1.00 a day. No thanks. If you were a fleet operator, then that might be a different story.
March 13th, 2023 at 12:43 pm
Why not rename thew show Electric Only Autoline.
March 13th, 2023 at 12:58 pm
If the GMC Hummer is a vehicle that you don’t drive every day, wouldn’t the bi-directional charging give the battery a little exercise? I know that in the early computer laptops, batteries that sat unused died a lot sooner than ones that were used regularly.
March 13th, 2023 at 1:37 pm
1,2 I’d pass too, on selling power back. More charge/discharge cycles shortens the life of the battery.
March 13th, 2023 at 1:39 pm
4 Running lithium batteries down below about 3.3 volts/cell damages, or ruins them. The residual drain, and/or self discharge can run batteries in laptops below that level if they sit for many months, or years without being charged. Generally, it is best to store the batteries at about 60% charge, or ~3.9 volts/cell if a device is unused. Generally speaking, charge-discharge cycles are what “wears out” the batteries.
March 13th, 2023 at 2:10 pm
I see a world of difference between the batteries in EVs and those in phones and computers. Most OEMs, (with the exception of manufacturing problems) have excellent battery life, with the notable exception of Nissan.
Car companies warrant batteries for 8 years, phone companies warrant them for one year or till they leave the shop, whichever comes first.
March 13th, 2023 at 2:33 pm
Sean, I notice that you don’t pronounce CATL as cattle anymore, did the company give you a raft of crap for using the acronym and if so what did they expect people to do when they named it such? What does the CATL actually stand for? Thanks.
March 13th, 2023 at 2:42 pm
7 I can set my phone to charge only to 85%, which I do when leaving it plugged in overnight. My laptop has a similar feature, which I always use. That should help the lifetime of the batteries. Both are about two years old, and don’t have noticeable loss of battery capacity. I’m unlikely to replace either for an “upgrade” any time soon, so might find out how long the batteries last. I had a Mac laptop that went ~7 years on the original battery, before it died of other causes.
A use that is really hard on batteries is powering model airplanes. We often charge them full, and run them lower than we should. Even worse, they are discharged very quickly, like in about 6-8 minutes, which makes the batteries get hot, with no form of cooling. The much slower discharge rate of batteries in cars, laptops, and phones is much easier on them.
March 13th, 2023 at 2:45 pm
8 According to Wikipedia, it’s “Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Limited.” It’s still cattle to me.
March 13th, 2023 at 2:57 pm
Thank you Sean/John for providing autoline an online NEWS channel which is new automotive news and if ICE companies are not providing any new news well it’s like 120 years ago the carriage manufacturers were not providing any new news it was all the new fangled horse less carriages. For ICE gearheads DaNile [some people spell it denial] is more than a big river in Africa
March 13th, 2023 at 3:05 pm
That Ferrari is a great looking Mazda MX30 .For 10 x the price.
March 13th, 2023 at 3:07 pm
11 Weren’t the carriage companies selling amphetamines, also known as speed, to make horses go faster?
March 13th, 2023 at 4:00 pm
Would bidirectional battery usage be used by any manufacturers as an excuse to deny warranty on premature battery failure? Just thinking out loud; some warranties have been denied for less.
March 13th, 2023 at 4:31 pm
3- I agree, I have been thinking this for a while, you just said it out loud. Other automotive news sources have more than just all electric, so I go there for info as well.
March 13th, 2023 at 4:48 pm
great show today, fascinating whats all going on in the auto industry.
March 13th, 2023 at 5:24 pm
14 Good point. It would shorten the lifetime of the battery, so unless the vehicle manufacturer sanctioned biderectional use, I’d think it could be a warranty issue.
March 13th, 2023 at 7:02 pm
Thank you Sean and John Mc.for giving us the automotive news as it comes to you two! If the only breaking news from OEMs are about EVs, you give it to us. When something on the ICE front comes through, you give it as soon as you got it!
As beautiful as the Ferrari SUV is, IMHO, it has reset the rule book on what sporty SUV can look like. No soft, rounded edge, two boxed, squares affair there, but a very curvaceous and power, all weather, asphalt burner! The Purosangue is the template/benchmark for all SUV/CUV named and style after sport cars/coupe (I’m longing at you Mach-E, future Camaro/Corvette SUV and you too DBX, Urus, Polestar, Cayenne and Taycan Cross Turismo)!
March 13th, 2023 at 9:17 pm
The Ferrari truck looks good, but for ~$400K base price, it should. The thing is, anyone can make something that looks similar, and sell it for $30-35K. Why don’t they? Is boxier a requisite for the low-mid mass market?
March 14th, 2023 at 7:53 am
It does seem like AD is heavy EV and China news but I’m not seeing that much activity in the US domestic market. I mean Stellates isn’t really domestic anymore even though I look at Dodge, Ram and Jeep as domestics. But Ford has thrown in the towel on cars. They have all their eggs in the truck and SUV market and seem to have plans to support only the EV market. GM is not much different, and I saw an article the other day that the biggest problem is they all have given up on entry level vehicles. They have basically handed that market over to Hyundia and Kia or anyone else that wants it. They are focused on high dollar large margin vehicles and EVs can be profitable when they start at 60K. The US automakers don’t want to offer anything low dollar. So, no entry level cars. Actually, no cars at all. They don’t want ICEs anymore because they can get more money for EVs.
Personally, I feel like when the realization that EVs are not the 100% answer they are going to be handed their lunch. Hyundia/Kia or maybe some Chinese firm will come into the US with a cheap ICE to fill the huge void left by this thinking. New buyers are going to be less likely to buy a Ford or GM as they will stick with the brand, they are familiar with. Who sold them that entry level vehicle that got them through college and when they first started out. Won’t be Ford or GM. And by then Ford and GM will go the way of Stellates and be bought out by a much stronger well diversified auto manufacturer. They are not too big to fail as we have seen before. Their next bailout will likely be a buyout.
March 14th, 2023 at 8:25 am
19) The vehicle everyone states is similar looking to the Ferrari, at least in sporty profile, that is in the 30-35K range is the Mazda MX30.
March 14th, 2023 at 10:07 am
20 & 21 the direct side profile of both are amazingly similar . and like I said earlier is 10 x cheaper.Of course you should expect a lot more in peformance and luxury from a Ferrari , but on looks alone they are very close.
March 14th, 2023 at 5:08 pm
It sounded like you said the Chevy Bolt gets over 300 mi of range… not unless its 70 degrees and I stay around 55 mph during the trip.