This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
GM Q1 SALES DIP DUE TO 24% DROP IN CHINA
General Motors and Hyundai reported their first quarter earnings this morning, and let’s hit the highlights, starting with GM. While it sold more vehicles in North America than last year, sales were down in South America and China, which dragged its overall sales down 3%. That total came to 1.38 million vehicles in the last three months. Thanks to selling more vehicles in North America at higher prices, its revenue hit almost $40 billion, which was up 11%. Its operating profit hit $2.5 billion, up 17%, but its net profit of $2.3 billion was 16% lower than last year. That’s because GM got far less income from its Chinese joint venture partners, where sales fell 24%. And GM had to pay $400 million more in taxes versus a year ago. Even so, GM’s earnings beat Wall Street’s expectations and it told analysts it’s going to raise its profit forecast for the year.
HYUNDAI POSTS MASSIVE FINANCIAL GAINS
Meanwhile, the Hyundai Group posted massive financial gains over last year. It sold just over a million vehicles worldwide in the last three months, up 12.5%. Its revenue hit $28 billion almost up 25%. And now the numbers are red hot. Hyundai’s operating profit shot up 86% to more than $2.6 billion, while its net profit skyrocketed by 92% hitting $2.5 billion. Even if you compare Hyundai’s earnings to the fourth quarter of last year, they are up significantly.
GM TO OPEN U.S. BATTERY PLANT WITH SAMSUNG SDI
GM and Hyundai also announced plans to make more batteries in the US. GM is joining forces with Samsung SDI to build prismatic and cylindrical nickel-rich batteries. The plant will make 30 GWh of batteries at full production, bringing GM’s total US battery capacity to 160 GWh. Neither company said where the plant will be built, but remember, GM and LG had a falling out over a battery plant that was supposed to be built in Indiana, so maybe the plant with Samsung will go there.
HYUNDAI BOOSTS CAPACITY AT PLANNED U.S. BATTERY PLANT
We already knew that Hyundai was building a battery plant in Georgia, but it looks like it’s going to be bigger than was first announced. Earlier reports said the plant would make 20 GWh, now Hyundai says it will produce 35 GWh of batteries, which it says will support about 300,000 electric vehicles.
CHRYSLER SHOWS DEALERS NEW ELECTRIC SEDAN
Ford CEO Jim Farley recently said the Chinese market is saturated with 2-row crossovers and really the same could be said of Europe and the U.S., especially with new EVs. That’s why we’re excited to see a report from MoparInsiders that cites dealer sources who say they were shown an all-new, all-electric sedan from Chrysler. It’s said to be a sleek, fastback sedan, similar to an outline shown during its EV Day in 2021 and about the same size as the Dodge Charger Daytona concept. That would indicate that it’s based on the STLA Large platform. And the obvious thing to speculate is that this could be the EV replacement of the Chrysler 300. MoparInsiders also claims Chrysler is expected to add the Airflow to its lineup late next year.
TESLA SHOWS MINIMAL BATTERY DEGRADATION
Some people are worried that EVs will be like our phones or laptops, where the battery works fine at first but over the course of 3-5 years it struggles to hold a charge. And then they’ll be stuck replacing an expensive battery pack. But EV batteries are designed to last 10-20 years, while maintaining up to 70% of their original capacity. And new data released by Tesla, shows that the Model S and X do really well at retaining battery life. It reports that after 200,000 miles of driving the batteries in those models are only degrading about 12%. And Electrek reports that model type and battery size plays a role in the amount of degradation and also that ealy data on the Model 3 & Y shows a loss of less than 15% over 200,000, but obviously, there’s a lot less of those vehicles that have reached that mileage yet since they came out later.
BMW EXPANDS IN-VEHICLE LIVE SPORTS STREAMING
Do you remember a recent report we had about BMW bringing live football or soccer on the giant rear cinema screen of the 7 Series for customers in Germany, Austria and Switzerland? Well, now it’s expanding the pilot test into more European countries, the Americas as well as Asia. The test lasts until March of next year and while BMW will likely have a deal to stream live American football in the U.S., I wouldn’t mind watching some of the playoff hockey that’s going on right now in the back seat of a 7 Series.
SAE STUDY FINDS EVs FALL SHORT IN EPA ESTIMATES
A new paper published by SAE International says electric vehicles are more likely to fall short of EPA estimates in real world highway testing than ICE vehicles. The study used data from Car and Driver’s real-world tests going back to 2016. In its 75-MPH test, more than 350 ICE vehicles averaged 4% better fuel economy than their EPA figures, while EVs got 12.5% less range than what is on their labels. One reason for the difference is how range is calculated. The EPA only provides a combined rating, which is weighted more in favor of city driving where EVs perform better, which boosts estimates. The SAE suggests providing a city and highway rating, like the EPA does with ICE vehicles. Car and Driver’s real-world test is done at a constant 75 MPH but in the EPA test, the speed varies, which allows EVs to use regenerative braking and that helps improve range as well. And the EPA test is also done at lower speeds and there’s two different formulas it uses to simulate the effects of higher speeds. Automakers can choose which formula they prefer, which means range figures aren’t perfectly comparable. The SAE suggests the tests should be standardized, so all vehicles are tested equally to get more accurate results.
BOSTON CONVERTING SCHOOL BUSES TO ELECTRIC
Boston, Massachusetts is converting its entire fleet of 750 public school buses to electric by 2030. And the city just received its first 20 buses from the Blue Bird Corporation. The buses, which can carry up to 71 students, have a range of 120 miles and can fully recharge in four hours using a Level 3 30-kW fast charger. Blue Bird says energy costs for its electric buses are 14 cents per mile compared to 49 cents per mile in fuel costs for its diesel buses. And we wonder if the city of Boston will take advantage of bi-directional charging, where they can sell electricity in the vehicle’s batteries to the utility. We learned at CES that two school districts in Massachusetts and Vermont did this and earned $10,000 per bus as part of a pilot project.
SIEMENS OPENS NEW EV CHARGER PLANT IN TEXAS
The German supplier Siemens just opened a new plant in Texas to make EV chargers. They’re Level 2 AC chargers, which range from 11.5 to 19.5-kW and will probably mostly be used at homes and small businesses but could really be installed anywhere. It’s Siemens second charger plant in the U.S. and it plans to build 1 million chargers for the market.
But that’s it for today, thanks for watching.
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Comments (33)
April 25th, 2023 at 12:18 pm
SAE is absolutely correct; there should be city and highway listing for EV’S. They could also add combined to keep it all as similar as possible.
April 25th, 2023 at 12:42 pm
1 They should also have city/highway/combined gas-only ratings for plug-in hybrids. There is a huge difference in plug-in hybrids. The Wrangler is dismal, even though it sells well, but the PHEV RAV4 Prime significantly outperforms the non-hybrid in gas mileage, even if you never plug it in, and it’s quicker.
April 25th, 2023 at 12:52 pm
I liked your fantasy about watching American Football in the rear seat of a BMW I7. If you have never seen Australian football known as AFL I think you might enjoy that too. Non stop action played by players wearing little protection usually impresses my American friends.
April 25th, 2023 at 12:53 pm
GM also announced it was dropping the Bolt at the end of this year.
I would think there has to be a lot more at play when it comes to battery degradation. Not just age but number of cycles, and are they charging fully, or just to 80%? Are they using rapid charging? So a 5% loss is probably best-case scenario.
I agree that EVs should provide a city and HWY range just like ICE vehicles. Would help buyers know what to expect depending on what they plan to use the vehicle for. Especially if that city/HWY range is vastly different.
The average school bus gets about 12k miles a year on them. at 14 cents thats only $1680. But with a 10K refund from the utility companies thats a $8320 profit per year. They last about 14 years so that $116,480. Not sure what those Bluebird EV busses cost but seems like a no-brainer. Plus it seems that they should be able to go more than 14 years. 10K seems like a high number for back-feeding electricity.
April 25th, 2023 at 12:58 pm
There was a suggestion that the Chrysler Airflow concept was an older design concept and would not make it to production. The real new Chrysler would be a more modern design. I hope it ends up being significantly more sophisticated than the Dodge concept we have seen, otherwise why bother making a separate model?
April 25th, 2023 at 1:11 pm
4 Fullness of charge and depth of discharge have a lot of effect on battery lifetime. I have my laptop set to charge only to 80%, and my phone to 85%. That should help make the batteries last long. I suspect the very fast discharge is a lot of why lifetime of batteries I use for model airplanes is very short.
Yep, city and highway range ratings would be very useful for EVs. I would expect tall, draggy vehicle to have much higher city than highway ratings.
This was supposed to be attached with #2.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46252&id=45694&id=44984&id=45008
April 25th, 2023 at 1:11 pm
GM dropping the Bolt and Bolt EUV at year end is an interesting decision, particularly in light of the very few Hummer and Lyrics being produced. As well, they will only have the introductory models of the Equinox and Blazer EV on the market by then, at least a year away from volume production.
I can only conclude that EVs are not seen as jugular to the company. Like most other companies, they forgot they needed to organize the batteries too.
April 25th, 2023 at 1:17 pm
I read that GM is adding a battery pack assembly plant to its Ingersoll Ontario BrightDrop plant.
April 25th, 2023 at 1:20 pm
They show highway/city/combined MPGe ratings of BEVs on the EPA site, but only combined range.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46204&id=46205&id=46206
The published EPA mpg ratings for ICE cars are downwardly adjusted from the test results, to better reflect real world mileage. Maybe they need to downwardly adjust the range numbers for BEVs.
April 25th, 2023 at 1:32 pm
7) The Bolt and Bolt EUV will have a similar price to the new Equinox EV with low range battery. I suspect GM figured that people, who are not really receptive to the bolt now, would likely not choose the smaller car over the larger Equinox for a similar price. So they are cancelling the Bolt, which needs rebates to sell, in favor of the Equinox EV which likely will not need incentives to sell.
April 25th, 2023 at 1:39 pm
A friend of mine has a Ford Lightning and thought he could drive from Erie, PA to the Pittsburgh airport on a full change. Its only 140 miles. He had to stop and charge again on the way there. This would have been all highway miles and during cold weather. So I’m guessing the Lightning does much better at slow speeds. But still disappointing.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:03 pm
So as used EVs hit the market I wonder if the on-board systems can provide current battery degradation? It will be similar to buying a used ICE and wondering if you bought a vehicle that got regular oil changes and proper service or in the case of an EV rapid charges and driven in ludicrous mode most the time.
11 That would stress me out having to spend an extra 20 min or so to charge up on my way to the airport before a flight. I’ll make sure the car has gas the day before just so I dont have to make any stops.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:28 pm
12 All recent EVs would be able to measure battery degradation. I have a phone app that does that for the phone battery. It measures the watt hours used for a few charge/discharge cycles, and compares that to the rated capacity of the battery. My ~2.5 year old phone has 87%, according to the app. Not too great.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:29 pm
Starting to think that Sandy Munro is right – EV transition is coming sooner than we realize. When all of this battery capacity coming up is live, cost of EVs will likely drop significantly. Or else demand may render the battery industry worthless.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:47 pm
@11 speed has a huge impact on battery range, so it would be interesting to know the speed your friend was driving. And his driving style. And what the range indicated on the instrument panel was when he left for the airport.
Either the vehicle was not fully charged, or he drives very inefficiently, or his F150 Lightning is not operating as it should. Without knowing more the story does not add up.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:49 pm
11,15 Also, use of cabin heat hurts a lot in cold weather.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:52 pm
Sean, you come up with a BMW for some hockey watching, I’ll fly down and join you and take care of the beer.
April 25th, 2023 at 2:54 pm
Kit, battery longevity isn’t easily comparable, what with active heating and cooling of the pack, bespoke chemistries, and nifty algorithms.
I remember that back when the Model S was the only Tesla, a shuttle service between LA and Las Vegas had accumulated several hundred thousand miles on each of their cars.
And regarding school buses, there’s a Walker electric truck that ran with its original batteries from 1914 to… ta-dah, 1960. Of course, this can’t be used to show battery longevity, but I think it is an indicator of overall vehicle durability.
Source https://nodum.org/electric-trucks-hundred-years-ago/
April 25th, 2023 at 2:55 pm
11,15,16 The Lightning has resistive heating, not heat pump, and that crew cab would have a lot of volume to heat.
April 25th, 2023 at 3:03 pm
@6 Kit, in regard to your RC batteries (I used to be pretty heavy into RC: cars, boats, airplanes) and used nickel cadmium, which seemed to last quite a while. Are the new batteries of today, lithium based, and prone to shorter life?
April 25th, 2023 at 3:08 pm
20 Yep, it’s lithium batteries now for powering airplanes. They have 3-4 times the energy density of NiCads, so that’s what is used for electric motor airplanes. I like NiCads for radios, because the last about forever. I have a ~20 year old transmitter with the original NiCad, and it still works. NiCads are hard to get now, and NiMH don’t seem to last as long. Different types of lithium batteries are not commonly used for transmitters, and LiFeP are fairly common as receiver batteries for airplanes with ICE engines.
April 25th, 2023 at 3:15 pm
20 Did you use NiCads for electric powered airplanes, or just for radios? I had a couple “low performance” electric airplanes years ago with NiCads, but the energy/weight greatly compromises performance compared to glow or gas. In the ’80s, I raced cars indoors in the winter, using 6 and 7 cell NiCads, which was the thing at the time. Another thing that has greatly improved performance of electric airplanes, is brushless motors. I don’t know the numbers, but they are significantly more efficient than brush motors.
April 25th, 2023 at 5:48 pm
2, Kit, fuelly.com has owner reported fillups as low as about 30 mpg for both RAV4 Prime and Hybrid. So YMMY!
Car & Driver 40,000 miles longterm test of a Model 3 had OBD-ll software showing about 6%. This journalist driven and only Supercharged charging, which degradation batteries faster than 240v level 2. With Tesla rentals only being fast charged it should be interesting to see how they fair.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1efPb9aaL2Y
April 25th, 2023 at 5:49 pm
Kyle Conner Model Y rental battery test.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1efPb9aaL2Y
April 25th, 2023 at 6:45 pm
Does anyone remember the Plymouth Expresso (sic) concept car in screaming yellow? That would make an excellent cheap city EV. I’m astonished no Chinese company has stolen the design yet.
April 25th, 2023 at 8:45 pm
21,22 Yeah, mostly Glo for me, though I dabbled with off-road dune buggy that was electric. Nicads for trans and receiver; I think the electric motor was nickel metal hydride. Your right about the nicads in the tx and rx; never had to replace them.
April 25th, 2023 at 9:50 pm
23 Yep, YMMMV. I get near 40 mpg with my FWD Highlander hybrid in mixed driving in Indiana in the summer, mostly at speeds of not much over 60 mph. I get 33-34 on long trips on the interstate, mostly at about 80 mph. As with other cars, the way you drive has a big effect on mpg. If a light turns red in front of me, I let off the gas, rather than charging up to the light and slamming on the brakes like some people I know. That helps mpg. Even with hybrids, braking gently is better. Hybrids don’t have enough MG capacity to recover hard braking efficiently. The friction brakes are doing a lot.
April 25th, 2023 at 9:54 pm
26 A few years ago, probably 10 years, I needed a battery for glow plugs. With difficulty, I found a sub-C NiCad, and it’s still working. A NiMH probably would have died 5 years ago.
April 26th, 2023 at 3:24 am
Owner of a 2019 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus, it has 104,686 miles. The battery range is down ~215-220 miles from the original 240, ~10-8%. I’m not selling.
The Tesla SuperCharger network has expanded faster than my battery degradation. So the first week of March, I drove 1,888 miles for $166 of electric costs. My longest segment was 30 hours and 1,300 miles from Huntsville AL to Albuquerque NM where the motel offered free breakfast and overnight charging. Autopilot/FSD did the driving while I supervised.
This month I did some Wh/mi benchmarks at 35, 60, and 75 mph. Solving a quadratic equation and knowing the battery capacity, I have a graph of speed versus range that allows me to predict accurately how to reach my next destination.
One irony is the value of my Tesla is just under the $15k value of Full Self Driving.
April 26th, 2023 at 3:29 am
That 1,888 mile trip was Huntsville AL to Las Vegas NM where I stayed at a motel with free electric charging. Unfortunately the ‘valet’ parking attendants were not very good about putting a charge on my Tesla … unless I bribe-tipped them heavily.
April 26th, 2023 at 8:59 am
30 Were you required to us the “valet,” and not allowed to park yourself?
April 26th, 2023 at 11:53 am
Valet parking was required at the hotel whose name rhymes with “Dump”. The “Dump International Hotel” where on the 24th floor, there was no sound from any adjacent rooms or the hall. But you could hear a drunk tossing his load on the street below. The large picture window had no audio dampening so you heard every noise in Las Vegas.
April 26th, 2023 at 12:46 pm
32 Doesn’t sound like too much fun.