AD #2667 – VW Cheated on Gas Engines Too, Bugatti Tops 300 MPH in Special Chiron, BMW to End i8 Production

September 3rd, 2019 at 11:45am

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Listen to “AD #2667 – VW Cheated on Gas Engines Too, Bugatti Tops 300 MPH in Special Chiron, BMW to End i8 Production” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 6:59

0:08 CNH Industrial to Split Operations
0:59 Continental Considers Powertrain Spinoff
1:20 Weekend Race Results
2:16 Bugatti Tops 300 MPH in Special Chiron
3:19 BMW Will Stop Producing the i8
4:43 VW Cheated on Gas Engines Too

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51 Comments to “AD #2667 – VW Cheated on Gas Engines Too, Bugatti Tops 300 MPH in Special Chiron, BMW to End i8 Production”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    test

  2. Larry D. Says:

    Your guest may know a lot of what’s happening at Rivian, but will he be at liberty to say it publicly? Automakers are notorious for their secretiveness and a whole profession of spy shot takers was created to provide at least some limited info.

    Re VW cheating. I guess if they had to cheat with the diesels, they might as well cheat on gas too.

    I believe the reason they cheated with the diesels was the unreasonably high requirements in the US, much higher than those in “green” Europe, for diesel emissions.

    It reminds me of similar cheating in Europe with the VAT, which in many nations is 23 and 24% (compare with our sales tax of 6%, if any).

    In many European nations, when you call somebody for service, like I did with the awnings in my apartment overseas last week, they give you a price, and then say, if you want a receipt, you have to add the 23-24% VAT. If you don’t need a receipt for tax deductions etc, NOBODY wants one, why would they pay almost 25% more to get one?

    So in many nations in the EU the above ‘illegal’ economy, cheating on the VAT, is a huge chunk, that should be added to the official economic stats (GDP etc) to get a fair idea of the economic situation.

    OK so what is my point re VW Cheating with the above? When requirements are unreasonable, people, companies etc will cheat.

  3. rey Says:

    VW caaugh cheating with gas engines too? what else is new?What will the fine be?

  4. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sean; Any word on the distance or time it took Andy to get to 305mph?

    Oh VW, Run a campaign to give the impression you have cleaned house and are now going to have some ethics only to find out you haven’t come completely clean.. Guess more heads will roll.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    At least VW should have an easy fix for the gas cheating. Just have them shift earlier all the time, not just while being tested. Then, of course, magazine testers will whine about them shifting too early, as they do with many other cars.

  6. Dave Says:

    If VW cheated on gas cars too what else did they cheat on?

  7. Bob Wilson Says:

    Continental is trying to become the ‘everyone has the same technology’ company that Bob Lutz once claimed when criticizing Tesla. Perhaps we’ll see some affordable, EU branded EVs but I suspect their efforts will be more for the Chinese market.

    Meanwhile, Gigafactory 3 is coming online with pre-production testing of the assembly line(s) and subcontractor validation. Using the lessons learned from Fremont, the Chinese will see an improved car.

    BTW, Elon was going to raise prices on the USA built Teslas ~3%. After visiting, the Chinese waived their 10% sales tax. That is some negotiation.

  8. wmb Says:

    The sad thing to me is, with the cheating, it’s the employees who build the cars, are the ones that will hurt by the actions of a few in upper management! Between possible lay offs to save money to pay the fines that are sure to come, or no raises, the executives who made these choices are going to do okay with their golden parachutes. In no time they’ll be working for some other company and no one will none the wiser. While those on the assembly line or other support staff, may not find more work as easily. Smh!

  9. Buzzerd Says:

    VW- wow, yet another black eye, and some won’t buy a GM cause they borrowed money.

  10. Larry D. Says:

    9 Really? They ‘borrowed money’? Is this the politically correct version of “they, the biggest US auto company, went bankrupt”? Instead of dominating the industry and gobbling up all others, and being chased by the Antitrust division of the US DoJ?

    I thought they did not buy them because, by CEO Mary Barra’s own words, they “made crappy cars”.

  11. Lambo2015 Says:

    9 Yeah and some even think that its because the unreasonably high requirements of the US whilst the US makers with their low IQ engineers have somehow figured out how to pass the same test with their gas engines without cheating.

  12. Larry D. Says:

    8 VW paid huge fines, and the workers are not the only innocents who were affected.

    The shareholders of VW, which are NOT “a few rich guys” but millions of employees, widows and orphans, may have seen a sharp drop in the values of their retirement savings if they were in VW stock

    The consumers, almost certainly will have to pay a large chunk of the fines, in the form of more expensive VW models, or more cheaply made (as is the case with the Tennesee built Passat interior I rented couple years ago).

    And many more. Not just the workers.

  13. Lambo2015 Says:

    4 I couldn’t find how long it took to hit 305 but I did find this:
    0-60 mph was in 2.4 seconds, but the Chiron won’t stop there. 0-124 mph takes just 6.5 seconds, while 0-186 mph is a mere 13.6 seconds.
    Back in 2017, the Chiron took just 32.6 seconds to go from 0-249 mph.

    All very impressive numbers, I have no idea what the 1/4 mile would be but I would think its under the 12 sec and at 13.6 its doing 186 MPH.

  14. Barry Rector Says:

    John,

    Thanks for the great reporting and insight into the VW emissions story! This is why I follow you and your team to learn about the auto industry.

  15. Drew Says:

    @12 – In your 2nd paragraph, you can substitute the word “VW” with the names of other large employers… “GM”, “FCA”, “Ford”, etc. Breath deep. You can do it with denigrating the IQ of those employees.

  16. Drew Says:

    Oops…. missing a word…. “you can do it without denigrating the IQ of those employees.”

  17. GM Veteran Says:

    On VW cheating, they did not cheat because the pollution requirements were too high. Other companies were achieving compliance with aftertreatment options and other technologies. VW cheated to increase profits. Piech wanted a VW diesel that would meet the pollution requirements without any modifications or additional equipment, which would make it cheaper. Under immense pressure, the VW engineers gave him what he demanded. They just didn’t explain how it met the requirements. And, VW made a lot more money per car and was able to undercut the prices of their competition because of their lower costs.

    On CNH, they apparently have reviewed what Nikola has to offer and are voting with their investment dollars. Another huge dose of capital for Nikola. I guess Nikola might just have something viable after all.

  18. Carl Says:

    RE: VW. If you can raise the fuel economy by changing the ‘shift points’ that is a good way to increase fuel savings. So why not use that method on all vehicles, all the time? What is the downside?

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    18 Sluggish slow performance is typically the trade off as the shift points keep the RPM so low that its like driving with 40% less HP.

  20. Don Wagner1239 Says:

    There were two stories in the Detroit News today that are interesting, but not mentioned. One: FCA has decided to stop making and selling the Fiat 500 sedan (November) and 500e (already dead) in North America. Made in Toluca Mexico in the plant that makes the Jeep Compass. The 500L and 500X will continue (why, I wouldn’t know!).

    The other story is on the front page about how one of the “Greenies” favorite car makes can’t get people to buy their plug-in Crosstrek over the basic Crosstrek even with credits or government mandates, as in the California percentage requirements. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2019/09/03/subaru-other-small-carmakers-ev-mandates/2130087001/

  21. Don Wagner1239 Says:

    19: I bet that’s why my 2019 Jeep Cherokee 9-speed doesn’t like to downshift when I would really like. Really have to punch it. Better economy? Can’t measure that.

  22. Don Wagner1239 Says:

    20: It’s in the story, but bet Tesla is laughing all the way to the bank with that side hustle selling mileage and emissions credits. Millions to the little guys.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 The main downside is that automotive writers whine about early shifting automatics, as do some customers. Yeah, all car companies should use the shift points that give the best efficiency.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 There’s nothing wrong with early shifting at light throttle, as long as you get proper shifting for performance, if you “get on it.” I drive manuals that way.

  25. Albemarle Says:

    Standards too high? Cheat. Too much money not to make? Cheat. Conditional ethics.

    Like that old Ernest Hemingway story. He’s at a party, meets a beautiful woman who says she will sleep with him for $1 million.
    He says “will you sleep with me for $1?”
    She says “what do you take me for?”
    He says “We’ve already determined that. We’re just negotiating the price.”

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 VW claimed to have some sort of “magic bullet,” to not need aftertreatment, but their trick turned out to be the blatant cheating we now know about.

  27. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    23) And VW wasn’t shy about claiming technological superiority over the others who didn’t cheat. That is my whole issue with the VW scandal. If they weren’t so smug before being caught, I would have somewhat cared about their business suffering the consequences. Now I just simply enjoy watching them eat humble pie on a daily basis.

  28. Bishop Says:

    I believe there were other exec decisions behind the VW decisions to cheat. For those that followed the ALMS, and remember, back in 2006 Audi unveiled their R-10 TDI “Clean Diesel” LMP1 race car. The first couple of years, it was three factory cars and then they later opened it to a customer car(Champion Racing), but an Audi engineer had to be the one that actually started the car – every time it was to be started. The advertising catch words were “V-Power Diesel” and “TDI Power”, along wih “Clean Diesel”.

    That morphed into the R-10 and other prototypes.

    AFAIC, Audi (and therefore VW) had set its sights on expanding their production offerings to include more diesel powered models – esp here in the USA. I remember seeing the CEO of Audi being interviewed some where about this time and he stated that they were planning on expanding their sales by 50% in a few short years – counting on most of that growth – here in the USA.

    A PR campaign, and they used the catch phrase “German Engineering” regularly. In other words,( they could produce clean diesels that were powerful – championship winning power)and still be “Clean”. Of course, much like the present day Toyota P1 race team in the WEC, they weren’t racing against any other factories most years, so a finish meant a podium and win as the ACO has always dictated/controlled the lap times of the classes. Not until Peugeot (908 HDi) got in the game for 3 years in 2009. Only a factory could afford to develop diesels for racing at this level, much like the hybrids with a 1000 hp of recent years.

    I’d be very surprised if their Clean Diesel / V-Power Diesel racing PR campaign was not part of their overall plan – which included their use of the algorithms for the testing deception plan for production cars. The superiority of German Engineering, my eye.

  29. Ctech Says:

    In the effort of becoming too big too fast, there’s almost always a scandal behind the scenes. Regardless of the industry there’s the temptation to cheat.

  30. Ctech Says:

    What is the replacement for the BMW i3 & i8 ? Hopefully much better than the current models.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 I don’t know if that’s actually a Hemingway story, but whatever the origin, I love it.

  32. Al C Says:

    Known it for years and still love it

  33. Mark Brichacek Says:

    In the 1980′s manual transmission equipped Dodges like the Omni it had shift lights that lit up in the instrument cluster to guide the driver on when to shift for better fuel economy.When I attended a Chrysler training school as a dealer mechanic back then I was told that by having that feature the EPA had to use those shift points during their fuel economy and emissions testing on a manual trans car that had the indicator lights.

  34. Ctech Says:

    @ #28 It’s a story attributed to Winston Churchill “Churchill: “Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?” Socialite: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course… ”
    Churchill: “Would you sleep with me for five pounds?”
    Socialite: “Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!” Churchill: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”.

  35. Ctech Says:

    I hope you stay safe and dry Kit.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    I’ve heard this story before, exactly as you have it, but I am 99.99% sure it was not Churchill.

    For one thing, because Churchill never actually had even 1 million pounds, an astronomical amount at the time, much less 5.

    Obviously somebody stuck his name in it very recently, when the pound is close to one worthless 2019 dollar

    What I said above is proven by the link and book below of non-Churchill Quotes. End of discussion.

    https://richardlangworth.com/non-churchill-quotes-a-porny-issue

  37. Larry D. Says:

    28, 30 Fairy tales of the flat earth society on the web.

    Churchill never uttered these words, and here is proof, if your common sense cannot tell you why:

    https://richardlangworth.com/non-churchill-quotes-a-porny-issue

    I posted a separate reply which did not get publiushed because allegedly it was a duplicate, but what gives it away is the RIDICULOUSLY high amount.

    CHurchill never saw 1 million pounds in his life, let alone 5 million. A Rolls Royce he bought new in the 1930s cost 2,000 pounds. thousand, not million.

    Obviously the crook who stole the story and put it in CHurchill’s lips has no clue how strong the pound used to be and what worthless piece of paper it is today.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    30, 28. You should have figured out easily that Churchill NEVER said these words. Here is proof he never did:

    https://richardlangworth.com/non-churchill-quotes-a-porny-issuehttps://richardlangworth.com/non-churchill-quotes-a-porny-issue

    If you still don’t know why, I will explain in a later post.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31 I headed a little west, to near the Disney stuff. As it turned out, I would have probably been ok at my place near the coast, but you never know.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 My ’89 Caravan with the 2.5 turbo/manual doesn’t have a shift light. Did other applications with that powertrain have shift lights, or maybe just the non-turbos?

  41. John B Says:

    12. I wouldn’t feel too bad for the long term shareholders as it would stand to reason that they would have benefited from the inflated profits over time due to the cheating in the first place.

  42. Lambo2015 Says:

    33 I had shift lights on my 85 Pontiac and my 87 Dodge Omni. Which were annoying as they basically came on at 2500rpm which meant after the shift (both 5 speeds) the next gear dropped you to something like 1800rpm which was way too low for the 4cyl Omni and made the V6 Pontiac feel like a 4cyl. Even under moderate driving I would typically run the RPM up to about 3000 shift which would start the next gear out just over 2200 which was reasonable.
    The factory shift lights I think were positioned a hair above what would lug the engine. The only time I would even come close to shifting with the indicator was from 4th to 5th. On the Pontiac which was supposed to be a sports car it made no sense to me and I ended up pulling the bulb out as it was very annoying to keep having a light on the dash come on with every shift. I did not buy the car for its fuel economy.

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 My ’86 VW Cabriolet had a shift light, and with my normal mode of driving, it rarely came on. My 2010 Mini doesn’t have a shift light, or it never worked.

    My normal mode of driving it to shift early, except when accelerating quickly,
    and use the highest gear that doesn’t “lug” the engine when going constant speed. I skip a lot of gears, accelerating up to speed using 2 or 3 gears, and then going to the highest gear that doesn’t lug the engine.

  44. Lambo2015 Says:

    24 I feel the same way. I wonder if the VW engineers were biting their tongue as the marketing team touted the superior engineering. They marketing group probably had no idea and the engineers were probably thinking lets not brag too much since we are actually cheating.

    25 great post.. good info.

    32 Glad all is well Kit

  45. Lambo2015 Says:

    35 When I had my CTSV Cadillac had put a device in that forced a 1st to 3rd shift to achieve fuel requirements. That was annoying as hell. I quickly got on YouTube to figure out a by-pass. After a trip to radio shack and purchase of a resistor and some shrink tubing, I climbed under the car pulled the electrical connection and by-passed that the first week I owned the car.

  46. Larry D. Says:

    36-38 Sorry for the posts with similar content, when the two posts from the desktop did not appear for a while, I sent another from the laptop.

  47. Larry D. Says:

    Lots of auto news this morning.

    August sales are coming in,

    Toyota did well,

    Hyundai also was up due to the crossovers (just the Hyundai division, not Kia or Genesis)

    Honda did best of all, up 18% also on the strength of crossovers. Failed Acura was barely up a fraction of 1%.

  48. Larry D. Says:

    on Monday I stopped at Barnes and Noble to check out the mags, Motor Trend had its 70 year anniversary, and reviewed its picks for car of the year the last 70 years.

    Before I post the link (if I find it), guess which car or truck they named the King of the Cars of the Year, ie, the best of the 70 champs. Hint- it revolutionized the auto industry.

    Also today, Porsche is presenting the Taycan EV in two versions, costing about $180k and $150k (Model 3 35-40k versions need not worry, at most the higher end Tesla Ss should.)

    Porsche has 30,000 reservations for the beast, which does not look as beautiful up front (weird headlights) as the 911 or even the Boxster.

    Porsche said it is confident that electrification is gaining momentum and is coming out with many other EVs the next few years.

  49. Lambo2015 Says:

    36 I heard the quote before also but that it was from Mark Twain. Who knows, but I guess that wasn’t the end of the discussion.. lol

  50. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.motortrend.com/news/2013-tesla-model-s-beats-chevy-toyota-cadillac-ultimate-car-of-the-year/

  51. Larry D. Says:

    49 it sure was regarding the false claim that the Great Churchill said it. I doubt that Twain said it either, for the same reasons.