AD #2718 – Ford Calls New EV Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Confirms Santa Cruz Pickup, Toyota Adds AWD Camry & Avalon

November 14th, 2019 at 11:54am

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Listen to “AD #2718 – Ford Calls New EV Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Confirms Santa Cruz Pickup, Toyota Adds AWD Camry and Avalon” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 8:41

0:07 Ford Calls New EV Mustang Mach-E
0:38 Automakers Backpedal on Autonomous Taxis
1:10 UAW Hopes Ethics Reform Helps Avoid Takeover
2:45 Audi Reveals New S8 Performance Sedan
3:59 Hyundai Confirms Santa Cruz Pickup
4:34 VW Expands U.S. Factory for EVs
5:00 Non-U.S. Automakers Brag About U.S. Investments
5:32 Designer Sees 26-Inch Wheels in Our Future
6:06 Toyota Adds AWD to Camry & Avalon
6:51 Ram Smart to Keep Old Truck Around
7:41 Ferrari Debuts Stylish New Coupe

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48 Comments to “AD #2718 – Ford Calls New EV Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Confirms Santa Cruz Pickup, Toyota Adds AWD Camry & Avalon”

  1. Brett Cammack Says:

    Ford has not been very good at naming vehicles since the 1970s.

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It’s back to 1915, tall, lifted vehicles, with 26 inch wheels.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr38/2520559608/in/photolist-21TjhrX-5tp6WH-3bjBQv-Fbejp5-4QJwyh-8yFQCd-4QEjcB-BHcEwy

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It looks like Ford is getting ready to drop the Mustang, using the Mustang name on a totally unrelated vehicle. This is sad.

  4. MJB Says:

    I know smaller diameter wheels are better for performance (cornering and acceleration), but give me the larger diameter all day long. I mean, how many of us are running slaloms in our daily commute anyway?

    No longer a ‘tuner’, these days I relish a comfortable ride. And the larger the wheel/tire diameter, the easier it is for the suspension to take the bumps. Of course, it also helps not having razor-blade thin sidewall height.

  5. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I’m not much of a fan of big wheels, and when cars are equipped, tend to have a significant increase in damage especially now that a lot of road maintenance is lacking. Much beyond 20″ and trouble can be lurking; 26″ seems ludicrous to me (and they increase unsprung weight) so other than style I dont much see the point.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 Huh? Smaller diameter wheels with taller tires give better ride, less road noise, and are less susceptible to damage. In tests C&D did a few years ago, there was little difference in performance on a slalom, between different wheel sizes, and tire aspect ratio picked to keep the overall diameter the same. These huge wheels are all about “looking cool.”

  7. Buzzerd Says:

    Love the looks of the Ferrari and with more performance than 99% of us can use.
    With the popularity of CUV’s, SUV’s and trucks why wouldn’t Hyundai build the Santa Cruz? Seems like a no brainer.

  8. Drew Says:

    I see elements of the Mustang and Camero in the Roma’s interior… and a Camaro design in the Roma’s taillamps.

  9. cwolf Says:

    I don’t even like the 19″ low profile wheels on my car, so 27″ would be much worse.
    4) No, large tires should perform better than smaller ones because, due to the increased diameter, there is more rubber hitting the road.
    The down side of large tires, not including low profiles, is increased tire wear because of the added road contact. If 27″ tires are made using todays rubbers, I wouldn’t doubt if they would last much more than a year or two.

  10. GM Veteran Says:

    Very disappointing to see Ford use the Mustang name like this, and squander a great opportunity. Just like when the Mustang was launched, they did not use a variation of the name from another Ford model, and now the Mustang name is iconic. They had this same opportunity with this new EV, to establish a great new model name and potentially, a future icon. But, they are playing it safe and relying on the marketing power of the Mustang name to help draw attention and sales for the EV.

    Oldsmobile did the same thing, with dismal results. Executives thought that adding Cutlass to some other models would help boost sales. It merely boosted consumer confusion and made their marketing managers look silly. I’m not saying that Ford will have the same result, but there is no doubt that this dilutes the Mustang brand in the consumer’s mind.

    And, why do automotive marketing execs think they need to put “E” in the name of an electric vehicle or model? Do they think we are so dumb that we won’t figure out which models are electrically powered? At least Tesla got this right. I think the Mach-E model is a Mustang mistake!

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 It will be interesting to see how the Santa Cruz sells. The excellent Ridgeline doesn’t sell well, because its image isn’t “trucky” enough. If the production Santa Cruz looks like the concept, maybe it will do better, with its “fun” look. If it ends up looking like a Ridgeline, I’d expect it to have a similar problem, at least in the US market.

  12. cwolf Says:

    Looks like Ford is playing the Tesla game buy taking down payments before the Mustang and the price is even known!
    In one way, ordering a Mustang is a better gamble than the Tesla. I tend to believe the fit/ finish, paint job and service would be much better.

  13. GM Veteran Says:

    I find it interesting that Audi is only offering the S8 in long-wheelbase form. Since it is the high-performance model, I would think the smaller footprint would have lower weight and some steering and handling advantages. Some of the new technologies on this car will address those issues and maybe the larger body was necessary to house all of them. I’m sure its an impressive car, just find it odd that it will only be available in “plus” sizes.

  14. Brett Cammack Says:

    I’d like to have a Santa Cruz. I’d like to have a Ram 700, single cab. I hope the Santa Cruz is a big hit and prompts FCA to import the 700.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 Audi has been selling only the long A8 in the US for years. I agree that the short one would be better as a performance car, but I doubt that the 5 inch stretch would change the driving dynamics very much.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It looks like Dodge, er Ram needs to keep the old pickup, if they want to be a “full line” pickup brand. The old one is available as an actual reguilar cab, 8 foot box work truck, but the new one is not.

  17. MJB Says:

    To loosely quote Sir Mixalot,

    “I like big wheels and I cannot lie,
    You other brothas can’t deny,
    when a car rolls by wit’ itty-bitty wheels and a lot of fender gap I say ‘ewww’!”

    ;)

  18. GM Veteran Says:

    Thanks Kit, I did not realize that they dropped the regular size A8 in this market. I don’t keep up on current model offerings as much as I used to, unless I need to for work.

  19. Phred Says:

    The larger wheel diameter forecast will make a lot of new car designs look very much like some Low Riders in LA. The handling and ride comfort will be a challenge.

  20. XA351GT Says:

    @ #12 cwolf get ready, You dared mention the T word in a negative light, Our resident T cheerleader will soon be telling you the error of your ways over and over and over and over. Probably will insult your parentage and who knows what else.

  21. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Brett Cammack – I can’t wait for someone to bring a true small truck back, but it will be interesting to see how big the Santa Cruz ends up being. Hyundai has said it will fit into the mid-size segment.

  22. cwolf Says:

    20)
    XA, my comments were not negative. Tesla is more advanced than the others, but certainly should not be considered a “luxury” brand… though the “S” may be fitting.
    From what little we know about the Tesla and Rivian truck, I’m leaning towards the Rivian. The Rivian has 4 motors which may be an advantage. I’m not totally sold on the head lights, but I do think it’s kinda “funky” in a neat way.

  23. cwolf Says:

    Sean, the Honda Ridgeline is pretty close to being considered a true small truck. I had an early Ford Ranger with a stick and bench seat and rubber floor mats when I lived in the country. It hauled the interior of a 42 ft. Hunter sailboat that I upholstered, 18 bails of hay, riding mowers and just about everything a person would want.
    While most manufacturers are excluding cars and small trucks, for reasons of lack of profits and focus on EV’s, I applaud Honda and others for taking the risk to fill the void. I hope they become profitable enough to make other realize their mistake.

  24. WineGeek Says:

    Hey Sean are the new AWD Camry and Avalon “real” AWD or that phony system they are using in the Prius and even the new RAV4. What a joke it is an electric rear wheel assist system not a real AWD system. The “real” in the system is that it isn’t. The electric assist works off the hybrid system battery so that if you use too much assist the battery runs down and you end up with only a FWD vehicle. So to put it simply when you need the most “assist” you get none because the hybrid battery runs out of power. A better idea from Toyota. There is no direct connect of the ICE to the rear wheels only the phony assist.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21,23 From CR’s charts, the Colorado, Tacoma, and the Santa Fe that the Santa Cruz will be based on are all 74 inches wide. The Ridgeline is 5 inches wider. That didn’t seem right, the Honda being that much wider, but I found other sources saying the same thing. They are all the same length, within 3 inches, for the “crew cab” versions that CR tested.

    I’d hope that the Santa Fe will be smaller, at least shorter, but I suppose in will be completely different from the kind of cool concept, and will be “crew cab,” and 210-215 inches long. There is still a golden opportunity for a Chinese company to enter the market with a true small pickup.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24 The AWD Camry and Avalon won’t be like the Prius or RAV4, because they will be the non-hybrid versions. It will probably be the same system they use in the non-hybrid RAV4. I don’t know if that is real, or surreal in you mind, but it will involve some kind of drive shaft going to the back of the car.

    FYI, it is highly unlikely that the hybrid battery “runs down” in the Prius or RAV4. The system won’t let it run down. The gas engine and one of the MGs keeps some charge in the battery, “no matter what.”

  27. cwolf Says:

    Buying Chinese products is almost impossible, but buying ANYTHING automotive linked with the Chinese exceeds my tolerance level. I’ll walk first!

  28. XA351GT Says:

    @ #22 cwolf, I know you weren’t being negative ,but our cheerleader will . If you’re not worshipping the Ground T rolls on you’re being negative. Top give any other EV credit for anything is a slight to T.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 A former co-worker recently bought a Buick Envision. I was a little surprised, knowing some of what he’s said, but he knew it was Chinese when he bought it.

  30. Larry D. Says:

    12 That’s because you have no clue. ALL the hundreds of Teslas I have seen up close with my own eyes had PERFECT, not “detroit onetime big 3″ fit and finish.

    11 It sure will be interesting to see how both the Mustang EV and the Hyundai Pickup sell. At least FOrd is TRYING. WHat will Mary Barra show to compete with the E-Mustang? That MISERABLE Bolt????

    Hyundai, having failed 15 times in selling a Luxury car in the US market, now wants to fail another 15 times in the Pickup market. Greedy, Greedy.

    15 BMW did offer a more sporty version of my 7 and it was not a LWB model. Long WB is excellent for long trips that are so common in the US. My long 7 handled like a train on rails, but I bet it would be more agile in SWB form.

    20 If I give you some candy will you stop crying every time I set the record straight about Almighty Tesla?

  31. Larry D. Says:

    27 Your bias and almost bigotry are here 100% in plain sight. Part of it is your utter ignorance, and I don’t blame you for that. In 2006, my first visit to China, most cars were rather crappy, although they also had high end German cars, and the omnipresent Buicks were far better looking and more luxurious than the US versions.

    In 2019, now, when I AM in CHina for a month, I am, STUNNED at the progress. Every CHinese car I have seen and been in and given rides in has been SIMPLY FLAWLESS.

    You keep your bigoted opinions at your own risk.

    PS It will be a cold day in Hell when some Detroit 3 type would accuse TODAY’s chinese of shoddy products!!! Look in the MIRROR, see how the US market and the onetime all-powerful “big 3″ went BANKRUPT in 2008, and tell me whose fault that was.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30 The Bolt is far from miserable, but it does cost too much.

  33. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I’ll second that, the Bolt has almost universally been lauded as a very fine electric and those that did buy it, like it. Dealer failure of promoting it as well as polarizing styling has held it back.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 A few days ago, I saw a copper/orange metallic Bolt, a color that really got my attention. I liked the color, but wouldn’t want it on my own car.

  35. Drew Says:

    “… big 3 went BANKRUPT in 2008….”. Hmmm, just a little loose on the facts… one of the 3 did not go bankrupt, GM filed for Chapter 11 on June 1, 2009… Chrysler did it on April 30, 2009.

    Definition – Bias (verb) – cause to feel or show inclination or prejudice for or against someone or something.

    Definition – Preference (noun) – a greater liking for one alternative over another or others.

    I have no problem with people expressing their preference. But regardless if you call it a bias or preference, please make sure to the supporting facts are indeed factual. Otherwise, false “facts” are rudely disguised bias.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/china-commentary/american-brands-losing-ground-face-new-challenges-china?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20191114&utm_content=article13-headline

    More trouble for the onetime big 3. China wants them to improve their MPG and electrify.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/germany-welcomes-tesla-factory-boost-e-car-shift?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20191114&utm_content=article11-headline

    Tesla’s Germany factory could not have better timing. It is laughable that, in another article, it says that originally Tesla considered a factory in Britain, and only Stupid Brexit convinced it to do the obvious and build it near Berlin.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    32 I am fully aware you are enamored of the Bolt, and you are probably the only person on the planet who is. I always find it amusing to guess at the discussions at GM when they decided to build it.

    “We will lose $9,000 on every one we make, and we still have to price it at twice its ICE twins. So let’s help it by choosing the body style that is the most unpopular to US buyers. After all, we can always sell the few we will make to GM’s “Cruise” outfit ( who knows how cheaply)”

  39. Larry D. Says:

    33. NO. The styling is not just polarizing. The Lexus spindle grille is polarizing. The Bolt VEHICLE TYPE (short hatch) is a shape most americans would not pay more than $20k to buy.

    In stark contrast, the Model 3 not only kills its ICE twin the 3 Series, but is priced as much or LOWER many of that same 3 series verions.

    No wonder theModel 3 sells 10 to 20 times as many vehicles as the Bolt. DO you REALLY want to keep trying to defend the indefensible?

  40. Larry D. Says:

    35 seriously? Who cares? Keep biting that ankle and missing the forest for the trees…you really think I am hard on these UTTER LOSERS, the arrogant incompetents of Detroit, who sqyuandered a total dominance of the industry, 90+% share, to down to less than 50%?

    Don’t let the facts get in your way, GM-FORD-FCA fan boy.

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38 It’s hard to believe that you can have such an irrational hatred for a product. Some people actually like that a Bolt has as much cabin space as a Model 3, in a package that is 20 inches shorter. Also, does GM even lose the $9 each as you keep bringing up? Yeah, I’ve seen articles saying that, from 2 or 3 years ago.

    The Bolt doesn’t sell well, as with some other good vehicles, like Honda Ridgeline. If GM had made an electric sedan instead of the tall hatch, it wouldn’t have sold that well either, because, unlike Tesla, GM isn’t the flavor of the week.

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 I kind of expected them to buy a European “Fremont,” or go farther east, like Czech Republic, Slovakia, or Poland if they build new facilities. Anyway, they really dodged one by not going to the UK, with the BREXIT disaster.

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41 typo, $9K each, or course.

  44. Lambo2015 Says:

    I like Larry on China time. I can read the great comments until about 5pm EST and then just skip all the insults. How can we make this a permanent thing?

    10 I totally agree with your comment and think the Mustang-E is a horrible idea. Mustang is a model not a make and offering other versions is just a blatant attempt to push product under one of the few iconic makes Ford has. Just seems cheap and desperate.
    Honestly if they wanted to push this electric truck basterizing an already well known name they should have brought back the Thunderbird. At least that way they could have marketed as the E-truck bringing the lighting and the thunder. Doesn’t really matter as I still not sure there is much of a market for these E-trucks. I’m guessing Ford doesn’t either which is why they are taking pre-orders. Just to see if their is interest.

  45. Lambo2015 Says:

    I like the looks of the Santa Cruz and if they manage to keep it small I think it will do well. Keeping it small puts it in a market all to itself. Jump up to the mid-size and you have lots of stiff competition. That little ruck could fill a void left wide open by everyone in the US market.

  46. ChuckGrenci Says:

    45, Lambo, Sean states that the Santa Cruz is going to be in the midsized segment so probably the biggest competitor will be the Ridgeline. I’ll admit it does look smaller but apparently a styling illusion. We still need a smaller rendition (from someone).

  47. Lambo2015 Says:

    46 Chuck Yea I saw what Sean said and no doubt it will be more mid-size. Just stating that had they kept it small they wouldn’t have any competition and in those renderings it doesn’t look to have much if any of a back seat.
    I’m not sure if the old jump-seat (sitting sideways) that was popular in the extended cab S-10s would fly today as I’m not sure what rear seat crash tests require or if they can pass sitting sideways. But that was a pretty efficient way to at least offer additional seating in a very small truck that didn’t need the extra seats 90% of the time.
    The other problem is most manufacturers think that just because people want a small truck they assume its for fuel economy and put undersized motors in them. Actually many folks want a small truck for the capabilities of a truck with the easy handling of a small SUV. Give it some decent power and halfway towing capacity with a couple engine offerings. Then offer the thing in a 2 door and 4 door and they would likely sell really well. My guess is they are jumping in the already crowded mid-size market with the Ridgeline as its main competitor and will probably have similar results. They will probably do a little better as I’m sure it will be cheaper than the Honda.

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    45,46 If the Santa Cruz is based on the Sante Fe, it should be about 74 inches wide, the same as Colorado and Tacoma, and 5 inches narrower than the Ridgeline. They can make the Santa Cruz “different,” if they make it look like that concept, which would, presumably, be shorter, with the small, rear hinged doors.