AD #2932 – BorgWarner Finalizes Deal for Delphi; Mercedes Ramps Up EV Efforts; Why Honda Dropped F1 Not IndyCar
October 6th, 2020 at 11:43am
Listen to “AD #2932 – BorgWarner Finalizes Deal for Delphi; Mercedes Ramps Up EV Efforts; Why Honda Dropped F1 Not IndyCar” on Spreaker.
Follow us on social media:
Runtime: 9:34
0:23 BorgWarner Finalizes Deal for Delphi
2:32 Another Reverse Merger
2:58 Mercedes to Slash Costs
5:22 Why Honda Dropped F1 Not IndyCar
6:08 Toyota Making Fuel Cell Semi for North America
6:31 Toyota Working on Fuel Cell Train
7:28 Ford Shows Its Hybrid F-150 is Tough
8:35 Ford to Open Design Center in China
Visit our sponsors to thank them for their support of Autoline Daily: Bridgestone, BorgWarner and Intrepid Control Systems.
This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
BORGWARNER FINALIZES DEAL FOR DELPHI
Yesterday BorgWarner closed the deal on its acquisition of Delphi. That adds about $4 billion in revenue to Borg-Warner, making it a $14 billion supplier. It also sets up BorgWarner to do complete turn-key systems for battery electric vehicles. Fred Lissalde, the president and CEO of BorgWarner, told Autoline what they’re now capable of.
Fred Lissalde, President & CEO, BorgWarner
“With Delphi we’re creating a BorgWarner that not only has downstream from the battery the winning equation–which is mechanical, plus power, plus motor, equals the system. But John, we have all the products from stationary charging to moving the wheels of a battery electric vehicle or a hybrid vehicle. From stationary charging, to on-board charging, to battery packs ,to battery management system, barry cooling, inverter, motor, transmission, DC-DC converter. Efficiency in the battery electric vehicle is going to be extremely important. We’re not going to talk about fuel efficiency, we’re going to talk about efficiency. With efficiency comes range or cost. And also with efficiency the electrons we use for moving the wheels of the vehicle can be used for other trends like connected or autonomous driving. And we’re going to be one of the only guys in the world that can fine tune this efficiency–the mechanical efficiency, together with the motor efficiency, together with the software efficiency–all those connections, making sure we have the right package. That we’re optimizing all the right design features. Because we have that all under one roof.”
That’s pretty impressive. Not many suppliers have the ability to do complete turn-key BEV systems. In fact, we’re not sure than anyone else has such a complete portfolio.
ANOTHER COMPANY GOING PUBLIC THROUGH REVERSE MERGER
By the way, BorgWarner also owns 20% of Romeo Systems, a battery startup located near Los Angeles, which claims to have the highest energy density of any battery. It plans to go public through a reverse merger and hopes to raise about $384 million. Romeo makes batteries for heavy trucks and commercial vehicles and does all it’s manufacturing in the US.
MERCEDES TO SLASH COSTS
Mercedes says its break-even point before turning a profit is too high and so it needs to cut costs. It’s going to slash fixed costs and R&D by more than 20% by 2025. We wonder if that puts its Formula 1 efforts in jeopardy? For the short-term, AMG’s links to F1 will be ramped up next year – not sure exactly what that entails – and specialists from the race team will be used for the company’s Vision EQXX technology program that looks to bring the development of eMotors in-house. And Mercedes is really ramping up its electrification efforts. The G-Class and the AMG and Maybach brands will be going electric. The EQS sedan, which comes next year, will be followed by the EQE sedan, EQE SUV and EQS SUV. Those are all built on the automaker’s large dedicated EV platform. In 2025 a smaller dedicated EV platform will launch that will be for small and medium-sized cars. Also expect to see more Maybach variants in the future. Mercedes will try and double the size of the brand. With these moves, Mercedes says by 2025 it will be able to turn a profit, even with unfavorable market conditions.
WHY HONDA DROPPED F1 AND NOT INDY
Honda, as you know, announced it’s going to pull out of Formula One at the end of next year. But it’s going to continue making engines for Indycar. So why Indy and not F1? Here’s our Autoline Insight. Honda’s Formula One activities are run by an operation called Honda HRD. It is funded directly out of Honda’s R&D budget. Meanwhile, the Indycar activities are run by Honda HPD, which is a subsidiary with its own P&L responsibilities. It makes money selling high performance parts and Indycar engines. By getting rid of its F1 efforts, Honda will free up a lot of R&D money, whereas dropping out of Indycar wouldn’t save it anything.
Join us this Thursday when we take a deep dive into the development of the new Acura TLX. We’ll have the team leader Ken Sheridan and the chief engineer Marc Ernst on Autoline After Hours, the only show where you can consistently learn how the auto industry develops new products. Frank Markus will also be on the show so join John and Gary when we go live this Thursday afternoon at 3 pm eastern time.
TOYOTA ANNOUNCES FUEL CELL SEMI FOR NORTH AMERICA
Shifting over to the commercial truck segment, Toyota and its big truck subsidiary, Hino, announced plans to jointly develop a Class 8 fuel cell semi-truck for the North American market. It will be based on the Hino XL Series and equipped with Toyota’s fuel cell technology. The companies expect to have a demonstration vehicle ready in the first half of 2021.
TOYOTA TO TEST FUEL CELL TRAIN
And speaking of Toyota and fuel cells, it’s partnered with Hitachi and Japanese railway company, JR East, to develop a rail car powered by a hybrid fuel cell system. Here’s how it works. Electricity generated from the fuel cell is used to charge the main storage battery, which also gets energy through regenerative braking. The hybrid system then supplies that electricity to the traction motors from both the fuel cell and the main storage battery and that’s what turns the wheels. The companies plan to test the rail car in the real world in March of 2022.
FORD SHOWS ITS HYBRID F-150 IS TOUGH
The new F-150 goes on sale soon and for the first time it will be offered with a full hybrid powertrain. And the folks over at Ford want you to know that the hybrid is as rough and tough as any F-150 out there. It put out this video of the hybrid going through torture tests that all F-150’s endure, including towing in the desert in 100 plus degree weather, driving over harsh terrain and poor roads. The company also built a special testing machine to violently shake the 1.5 kWh lithium-ion battery equipped in the truck, to simulate hitting potholes and driving over bad roads. Ford says 82 hours on the machine is the equivalent of 10 years of punishment. The hybrid F-150 is powered by a 3.5L engine that cranks out 430 horsepower, 570 lb-ft of torque and it’s able to tow up to 12,700 pounds. It’s the most powerful powertrain in the new F-150 lineup and it has the most torque of any F-150 ever.
FORD TO OPEN DESIGN CENTER IN CHINA
Speaking of Ford, the automaker has struggled to connect with buyers in China. So, to help with that Ford is opening a new Design Center in the country this month and will hire Chinese designers to launch vehicles with its new design language, called “Progressive Energy In Strength.” While we don’t think there’s much to glean from it, Ford says this speed form it has on display at the Beijing auto show helps to showcase that future look. The press release talks about this cool sounding parametric octagon scales graphic design in the grille, but foolishly, Ford didn’t show it. Guess we’ll have to wait.
But that wraps up today’s show. Thanks for watching.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
Share
Permalink
Comments (26)
October 6th, 2020 at 12:00 pm
Autoline editorial don’t often use the word ‘foolishly.’ I think that speaks volumes.
October 6th, 2020 at 12:02 pm
RE#1 – Meant to say ‘editorial staff/management’
October 6th, 2020 at 12:18 pm
I hope for Ford’s sake that their hybrid does more than Ram’s eTorque; that, while not a failure, didn’t really move the ‘needle’ much. The Ford system sounds ‘sound’ but I wonder what will be the price and the take rate on such a vehicle.
October 6th, 2020 at 12:44 pm
But what is the MPG of the Ford hybrid pickup? That is the only thing that matters to most people, since few do off-road racing or tow 12,000 pounds, and from the article I found a few days ago, only 1/4 of pickups tow anything at all.
The Ram mild hybrid is good for 2 mpg city and combined, but some articles I’ve seen didn’t find much difference at all.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41652&id=41653&id=41656&id=41657
October 6th, 2020 at 12:51 pm
I like the Fuel Cell truck/train concepts. I think that is the perfect application of the technology. The fueling stations are few in number and strategically placed for those types of vehicles. The train even more so since fueling stations are pre-defined, highly controlled, and extremely few in number.
Trucks and trains never stop running because money is lost if the wheels stop turning. As a result, there is more positive impact to the environment by eliminating emissions from these high emission vehicles running non-stop then there ever will be from occasionally driven passenger cars.
October 6th, 2020 at 12:56 pm
#5 I wish more people understood this concept.
October 6th, 2020 at 1:40 pm
While the F150 hybrid gets me excited even more for the BEV, I’m a little disappointed that they used a V6 and not a four cylinder. I say that because, we have already seen their success in turning their twin turbo V6 as a proven replacement for the V8 5.0 (should a buyer make that choice). Attaching a hybrid powerplant to(i believe a different) V6 and having to pay the price penalty to do so, doesn’t make much since to me. Yes they will be able to directly compete with Ram, but by am I as a buyer going for this V6 and paying more, when I can get the other V6? At least if it was a 4-cylinder hybrid, that was just as tough and match their ttv6, but beat the Ram hybrid on fuel economy, to me, that would be a win and a reason to spend a little more. To me this shows GM what the need to do to improve the twin turbo 4 cylinder they offer in the Chevy Silverado. On its own merit, this engine matches one of the V8′s on torque and power, but the fuel economy is the same as the V8. Why would anyone pay more for a 4-cylinder full size pick-up, that is no better then then the ‘more manly’ V8? But if they were to attach a hybrid to it, improve the fuel numbers by 3-5 miles per gallon and the hp and torque to 350, that might be worth the investment!
October 6th, 2020 at 1:46 pm
Who needs fuel cells for a Train? (or even batteries?) Just electrify the TRACKS, or have a line above the tracks
October 6th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
Isn’t this the “parametric octagon scales graphic design in the grill”?
https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/fords-progressive-energy-in-strength-future-design-language-previewed-by-mustang-like-sculpture/#lg=1&slide=4
Maybe they foolishly didn’t include it in their press release, but I think it was on display in Beijing and available on the web.
October 6th, 2020 at 2:21 pm
8. They do that in parts of the world, like most countries in Europe, that are willing to use tax money to help fund infrastructure. In the U.S., some commuter lines are electric, as are the few subway systems, but long distance electric railroads don’t exist in the country.
In about the first half of the 1900s, there was a fairly comprehensive passenger rail system in Indiana, called “interurban,” that used overhead wires for power. It ended a few years before I was born, mostly because of widespread ownership of cars by then. There is a operable car from the system in a museum, and a “power supply” on display. The power supply is an AC to DC motor-generator. They had these every few miles to feed power into the overhead wires. DC had two advantages for that. They didn’t need to worry about keeping AC “in sync” from different sources, and controls of the time were much easier with DC motors.
October 6th, 2020 at 2:31 pm
#10 – True about many areas of the country – While I was not around to experience it, Detroit had trolley/streetcar lines that I believe reached as far as Flint, Ann Arbor, & Port Huron. I came to Michigan in 1966 to go to college, & their have always been stories that the automotive OEM’s, particularly those that manufactured busses worked very hard & spent funds to convince cities like Detroit to kill their trolley/streetcar lines.
October 6th, 2020 at 2:32 pm
Mercedes sure is investing a whole lot of $ on pure electrics. Must have a lot to do with current and future EU policies promoting BEVs instead of their diesels (even tiny cars here, like the FIat 500, are available in diesels)
October 6th, 2020 at 2:35 pm
11 We had trolley buses made in IN in the old country for the second half of the 20th century, but they gave up on them recently, I doubt they have them any more. When they had them, they had to stop frequently to fix the trolleys above the buses. It’s surprising they gave them up as pollution became much worse in the 80s and they would have helped if expanded instead of being phased out
October 6th, 2020 at 3:23 pm
The Pennsylvania RR had overhead electric transportation. Apparently it was not a big enough success for others to follow. Subways and some els (i.e. Chicago) still use electric propulsion but they are local trains; you don’t see electric propulsion on long distant train travel as train travel per se is no longer as popular as it once was either.
October 6th, 2020 at 3:23 pm
Making the F-150 Hybrid the most powerful powertrain is smart marketing – it will be at the top of the range and will appeal to those who want the highest power output. Other brands are also doing this to boost the images of (and charge more $ for) their hybrid powertrains.
October 6th, 2020 at 3:28 pm
5 – This is exactly the game plan Nikola has been laying out for the last three years.
Also underscoring the wisdom of the Nikola concept is Toyota/Hino coming out with a Class 8 fuel cell powered truck for the North American market. Its even more interesting, since this powertrain and a Class 8 truck are both firsts for Hino, at least in this country.
October 6th, 2020 at 3:30 pm
When I was growing up in Boston, the transit authority had many street cars that ran on electricity from overhead wires. I believe they still run some trolleys in certain areas.
And then there is the very large subway system that runs both underground and above ground.
But there are still way too many buses blowing diesel smoke into the air. They do have some propane powered buses, but I think that hydrogen powered buses would be the best bet for the commuter system.
October 6th, 2020 at 3:31 pm
14 – also, its just less expensive to have the powertrain be fully self-contained for long distance trains, passenger or freight. Setting up high-power overhead lines over long distances does not make financial sense.
October 6th, 2020 at 4:04 pm
I remember electric buses, “trackless trolleys” in Indianapolis as a kid. The last of them went away in 1957, replaced with diesel buses. I just read that there are now some BEV buses in downtown Indy.
October 6th, 2020 at 4:34 pm
There are still electric buses in Cambridge MA and I suppose other places. One of the problems with trolleys was that you had to step to the middle of the road to get to one. Electric buses can pull up to the curb. The other problem with electric buses or trolleys is that as population shifts, you can re-route regular buses to go where the demand is; not so electric. As others mentioned, in the early 20th century there were interurbans everywhere. Detroit was one place, as was New Jersey where I grew up. Cars and buses did them in.
October 6th, 2020 at 11:23 pm
If BorgWarner/Delphi does their “turn key” EV systems right, everyone who can figure a way to package batteries can do a proper EV. This could be the biggest threat yet to the dominance of Tesla in the EV world.
October 7th, 2020 at 7:47 am
16 You still defend the CROOKS and cheats like Trevor Milton? He resigned in disgrace. His whole ‘career’ is a trail of FAILURES where he made millions by defrauding investors using his hare-brained schemes, and you…admire them?
No wonder GM went bankrupt on your watch…
October 7th, 2020 at 9:52 am
I looked at Romeo Systems and have no interest. They packaged 2170 cell and then made some curious claims.
October 7th, 2020 at 11:16 am
23 It looks like they have nothing “special,” but what they are doing could be useful for those building a small number of EVs, but not enough to design and build their own packs. The 21700 cells are a known quantity, and work well for Trsla.
October 8th, 2020 at 1:00 pm
Looks like Mercedes is head down a dark road by focusing on profit over R&D/Innovation and Quality. Luxury brands need actual quality, not “preceived quality” too many vehicles now days are garbage after 7 yrars/100k miles.To much use of cheap plastics, materials & electronics.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:30 pm
I have owned Mercedes for nearly 40 years since the W123 turbo diesel in the early 80’s a total of 8 Mercedes so far. I didn’t buy them because of “perceived quality”. That was GMs game in the 80s. I didn’t walk away from them – I ran.
You either make great cars or you don’t. In today’s hyper connected world only everyone will know what you’re offering and what your game is.