AD #2963 – VW Dropping Passat From U.S. Market; Rivian Eyes Smaller EVs for Europe & China; Subaru Reveals New BRZ
November 19th, 2020 at 11:46am
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Runtime: 9:26
0:07 BMW Shifts Engine Production Out of Germany
0:48 Daimler & Geely Developing Hybrid Engines
1:01 VW Drops Passat to Make Room for ID.5
1:46 Rivian Eyes Smaller EVs for Europe & China
3:01 F-150 Hybrid Will Appeal to Contractors
4:26 Subaru Reveals New BRZ
5:47 New Mercedes Maybach S-Class Dripping with Decadence
7:41 Honda N-ONE Hitting Japanese Dealerships
8:16 GM Launching OnStar Insurance
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BMW SHIFTS ENGINE PRODUCTION OUT OF GERMANY
It seems like we start every show these days with news on electric vehicles, or how automakers are stepping away from piston engines. Well, today is no different. BMW announced it’s moving all IC engine production out of Germany as part of a 400-million-euro investment to retool its plant in Munich to build BEVs. That plant currently makes 4, 6, 8 and 12-cylinder engines but they’re moving to plants in Austria and the UK. The last engines in Munich will roll off the line in 2024. And by the end of 2022, BMW says each of its plants in Germany will produce at least one fully electric vehicle.
DAIMLER & GEELY DEVELOPING MODULAR HYBRID ENGINES
But as BMW backs away from piston engines, Reuters reports that Daimler and Geely are developing next-generation combustion engines for hybrids. The modular engine will be built in both Europe and China.
VW DROPS PASSAT TO MAKE ROOM FOR ID.5
Volkswagen is ramping up its electrification plans in the U.S. Ward Auto reports the automaker will build another ID model alongside the ID.4 crossover in Chattanooga, TN. It will be a production version of the ID Crozz Coupe concept that will be badged as the ID.5. It will come in both single and dual motor setups. While production is slated to start in 2022, the first examples of the ID.4 and ID.5 will come from VW’s plant in Germany. To make room for the ID.5 in Chattanooga, Volkswagen will stop making the Passat there and it will no longer be offered in the U.S. market. The Atlas is also made in that plant, but it’s sticking around for now.
RIVIAN EYES SMALLER EVs FOR EUROPE & CHINA
And EV startup Rivian decided it’s not just going to make full-size electric trucks and SUVs. Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe tells Reuters they’re going to make smaller EVs for Europe and China. He also says Rivian could build vehicles in those regions at some point but that it’s still “a ways off.” Rivian will start selling its SUV in Europe in 2022 and China will soon follow after that.
F-150 HYBRID WILL APPEAL TO CONTRACTORS
Will pickup buyers be interested in a hybrid this time around? GM tried with a dual mode hybrid back in 2006 but it was a flop. But Ford will offer a strong hybrid as an option in the U.S. market with the 2021 F-150. One thing that customers will like is the torque: 570 pound feet–the highest in Ford’s lineup, even more than the diesel. It has 700 miles of driving range and can tow 12,500 pounds. What will really appeal to contractors is that it comes standard with a 2.4 kilowatt power outlet in the bed for running electric tools. For $750 you can get a 7.2 kilowatt power outlet, which could run 28 refrigerators at the same time. Ford calls this Pro Power and it comes with four 110 volt outlets, two of which are in the cab, and you get one 240 outlet. That sure beats hauling a portable generator in the back of the bed. Ford says the hybrid is rated at 24 miles-to-the-gallon, but in a brief 35 mile test drive we only got 22 MPG and that was in ideal conditions. But we need more seat time before passing any final judgement on this. We also have a lot more information about the all-new F-150 and we’ll be bringing that to you in the days to come.
NEW SUBARU BRZ BREAKS COVER
Subaru pulled the wraps off the new BRZ sports car. With a smaller grille opening and more body color on the fascia, the hood seems to cascade over the front of the vehicle. Large air vents were added behind the front tires and the spoiler has been integrated into the rear, rather than hovering above the decklid. The license plate holder moved down to the rear bumper, which allowed for new taillight assemblies and a different treatment around the exhaust. The interior also sees some big changes. A 7-inch digital instrument cluster is flanked by an 8-inch center display screen. The dash features a layered look as well and there’s no longer a hump over the center air vents. Under the hood is a new 2.4L BOXER engine, which replaces a 2.0L unit. It makes 228 horsepower and 184 lb-ft of torque. That’s a jump of 23 horsepower and 28 lb-ft of torque. Despite the larger engine, the new BRZ weighs about the same as the outgoing model thanks to aluminum being used for the hood, front fenders and roof. Power is routed through either a 6-speed manual or 6-speed automatic that features a new Sport mode, which allows for faster downshifts and throttle blipping. The new BRZ will go on sale in fall of next year.
NEW MERCEDES MAYBACH S-CLASS DRIPPING WITH DECADENCE
We showed you the all new Mercedes-Benz S-Class a couple of months ago. Here’s the top of the line Maybach version. The car is dripping with decadence. Mercedes is positioning this as a car to be driven by chauffeurs. It has a 7-inch longer wheelbase for more rear seat room and the rear seat has a heater for your shoulders and neck and even has a massager for your calves. That optional two-tone paint job is actually done by hand and takes a week to do. We can’t wait to learn how much they’ll charge for that. There’s a long list of fascinating features on this car that you can read about by clicking on the link in today’s show notes or in the description box. But one thing you will not find is any mention of what kind of internal combustion engine is in the Maybach. Mercedes mentions that it is a mild hybrid, but there is no mention of displacement or power. Sure looks like Mercedes is trying to distance itself from ICEs as fast as it can.
Some automotive suppliers have grown so big they’re actually bigger than a number of car companies. And in many cases they have more expertise in BEVs and autonomous technology than automakers. Magna is one of those suppliers. So how much of the industry can suppliers take over? That’ll be one of the topics we tackle on Autoline After Hours this afternoon. Don Walker, the CEO who helped build Magna into the powerhouse it is today is our guest for the show. Mike Colias from the Wall Street Journal will also be on the show, so join John and Gary when we go live at 3 pm eastern time.
HONDA N-ONE HITTING JAPANESE DEALERSHIPS
Honda’s got another cute little kei car that’s hitting dealerships in Japan right now. The N-ONE features boxy, yet playful styling. Under the hood is a 660cc engine, the max for a kei car, which comes naturally aspirated or turbocharged. Power is sent through either a CVT or 6-speed manual and front or all-wheel drive. Despite pricing starting below $14,000, the N-ONE comes standard with Honda suite of driver assistance technology, including Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Keeping Assist.
GM LAUNCHING ONSTAR INSURANCE
Last year, Tesla launched its own insurance service because Elon Musk said owners were being ripped off by insurance companies. Now General Motors is doing the same thing. It will offer car insurance through OnStar called OnStar Insurance. Owners who opt in will have their driving monitored through the on-board telematics system and the data collected from that will be used to determine their insurance rates. So if you’re a lead foot you won’t save much but if you obey all the traffic laws and are a safe driver, you’re going to save money. Currently, insurance companies have to base claims on all the customers it insures, which can lead to higher costs for everyone. OnStar Insurance will initially be offered to GM employees in Arizona this year and then roll out to the general public in early 2021.
But that’s a wrap for today and we’ll see you again tomorrow.
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Comments (43)
November 19th, 2020 at 12:08 pm
@ Sean: “Some automotive suppliers have grown so big they’re actually bigger than a number of car companies.” Could you please name a few suppliers that are larger than a number of OEMs?
November 19th, 2020 at 12:21 pm
1) Not sure of the size of each of these companies but Bosch, Denso, Magna, Continental and ZF were the largest. Number 3 Magna’s total revenue was around 42 Billion in 2019. Net income of 2.2 B.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
2 cont- Bosch has 400,000 employees worldwide and 77.7 Billion Euros in sales.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:28 pm
The Honda N-One almost equals the first Honda Civic (at least to the eye, or my eye anyway).
November 19th, 2020 at 12:31 pm
Not a big fan of telematics being used to determine insurance rates. That’s only a snapshot of the overall picture. If you are a good driver and drive defensively you can go 30 years without an accident even if you speed frequently. Be a horrible driver obeying all the speed limits and have multiple close calls a day yet telematics says your the safer driver.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:32 pm
BMW must be confident that the UK and EU will work out a post-Brexit trade deal, to allow free flow of engines from the UK to Germany and other locations. Is there any serious progress on that yet?
The F-150 claims to be a “full hybrid,” but why the non-hybrid level gas mileage? It will be interesting to hear more about that system, like how much of the time will the engine run, if you are using the power plugs? It will be convenient for construction sites, but an extension cord might be a lot cheaper than having your 3.5 turbo running all the time, if that is how it works. We should soon hear more about it.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:38 pm
3 It looks like Bosch’s revenue is substantially less than Toyota or GM, but more than quadruple Tesla.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:46 pm
I glad to see that the BRZ/86 is surviving for another generation. I’ve read a couple reports, and people are still whining about the lack of a turbo, but others say the new, bigger engine with a lower rpm, flatter torque curve works very well, and is a noticeable improvement, even with only ~12% more power.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:48 pm
BMW SHIFTS ENGINE PRODUCTION OUT OF GERMANY
Say goodbye to excellence in engineering, and engines hand assembled in Germany.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:51 pm
5) My insurance company kept asking me to put one of their trackers in my car for a “cheaper rate”. I refused. I drive on I-94 to Detroit every day and get the joy of experiencing near misses multiple times per day and all within 5 miles of the I-75/I-94 interchange. Their telematics lack context and I would likely be considered a bad driver despite never having an accident in the most intense traffic situation known to exist in Michigan. Not even once. I would refuse onstar insurance for the same reason. There is no way I would remotely trust anything TESLA. TESLA has a nasty habit of blaming their customers for everything that goes wrong with their cars. With a corporate culture like that at TESLA, imagine TESLA insurance LOL
The good news is that I have OBD1 cars that I can drive to work if insurance ever wants to make a thing of it. No possibility for them to track anything on those cars unless they want to tell me what the latest check engine light codes are LOL.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
The American auto manufactures are going to be in deep shit in the coming 10-15 years with this continued push toward electric vehicles. Fact is most people don’t want them, will not buy them, and the country infrastructure is not ready or equipped to handle the power distribution and charging of millions of EV’s.
November 19th, 2020 at 12:56 pm
I know that many may not agree or desire such a change, but VW’s discontinuing of the Passat in the US for the I.D.5, seems to indicate that the five door CUV/Crossover ‘coupe’ may eventually replace to sedan in the market place. Crossovers are generally tall sedans anyway, so they’re replace for the sedan may have been just a matter of time.
Rivian statement that they build ‘addition to building full size vehicles’, is very misleading IMHO. Their current offering is a tweener, between the size of a full size vehicle and midsize. So when they say that they will eventually build a smaller BEV, will it be a tweener too? Between that of a true compact vehicle and a midsize? And will they offer it in the US as well?.
The hybrid F-150, at even 22 mpg is a great average I would think. At work I use a new 2020 regular cab and 6 ft bed F-150 and get 14.5 mpg with the light stuff that I carry in the bed! To get 22 mpg, with a loader bed and the plug-in capacity that it has, will be win-win for work truck industry.
I still can’t see the Maybach as a real competition for Bentley and Rolls Royce. I know it is a step up from the regular S-Class, they treat it like trim level. AMG has set itself apart as a serious, in house tuner for Mercedes. Yet, to me, it is hard to look at Maybach in the same way, let alone the same class as RR and Bentley, as great as they may be!
November 19th, 2020 at 1:28 pm
The new F150 will make a great truck to tailgate. You could carry all your stuff to the game like your grill, chairs, table and big screen TV and have a place to plug it in. Since you cant go in and watch a game anymore.
November 19th, 2020 at 1:35 pm
Sean, Does the Ford F-150 Hybrid produce enough power that I could use it instead of a GENERAC for emergency power during a power outage? If so, that might make it worthwhile to a lot of people in rural, tornado or flood prone areas.
November 19th, 2020 at 1:37 pm
12 Now, if they’d just lower those 5-door CUVs and make them the height of a regular sedan, they would have great cars, formerly known as station wagons.
The EPA combined rating of the F-150 hybrid is only 2 mpg better than the 2.7 turbo. The hybrid, with the 3.5 turbo and some electric boost will be faster, but substantially more expensive, and the 2.7 turbo has plenty of power for normal use. The generator thing would be nice for some people.
M-B has been using the AMG moniker very loosely the last few years, applying it to versions of the very mediocre A-Class and CLA. They should reserve AMG for better cars than that. Maybach seems to be for ultra luxury cars, that aren’t as conspicuous as a Rolls are Bentley. Maybach didn’t seem to go that well as a separate “brand,” and I doubt it will do that well as a trim level of the S-Class. We shall see.
November 19th, 2020 at 1:49 pm
14 The 7.2 kW version should work as an emergency generator for many people, but you’d need to use care about what high drain appliances are on at the same time.
November 19th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
@ Sean, 2, 3: Annual revenues Robert Bosch $47 BB/yr (Lambo’s EUR 78 BB/yr figure includes Household appliances and Powertools), DENSO $42BB, MAGNA $40BB. So, Sean which suppliers are larger than a number of OEMs?
November 19th, 2020 at 2:10 pm
#10 poking the bear I see. LOL
November 19th, 2020 at 2:10 pm
I’m looking forward to Autoline After Hours.
As Lambo2015 noted, these are gigantic, world-bestriding companies. It’s also indicative of US competitiveness in legacy industries that only Lear made it into the top ten. Incidentally, Bosch is privately owned.
Autonews has a nifty list of the top 100, usually updated yearly.
https://s3-prod.autonews.com/data-protected/062419-2019TopSuppliers-062419.pdf?djoDirectDownload=true
November 19th, 2020 at 2:19 pm
9 Roger – German companies have been manufacturing engines and components in neighboring countries for a long time. The Audi e-tron’s motor is made in Hungary. And about that hand-assembled… I’d see that like pixie dust. It’s not good for margins.
In Czechia and Slovakia, any warm body can find work (well, pre-pandemic) due to the abundance of German factories. And they’re competitive in software / engineering services too.
While Skoda survives in name, Tatra was a storied marque even before WWI, if I remember correctly.
November 19th, 2020 at 2:22 pm
17) Every day LOL
I also found out that GM partnered with American Family Insurance as their underwriter. This insurer recently had their Fitch rating withdrawn because of deep financial issues and the likely outcome that they will be bankrupt soon. Imagine trying to get a company like that to approve and pay claims. Best case scenario they approve the claim and can’t pay it because they are broke. There is no way I would consider OnStar insurance until they get an underwriter that isn’t teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
November 19th, 2020 at 2:23 pm
I’m firmly convinced that the only people that make out with the telematics watching your driving and calculating your rates are the insurance companies. It’s just another way for Big Brother to charge you more for giving you less. I love to watch all the ads on TV about how you really make out with the insurance company electronic copilot. The problem is that the only one that really makes out is the insurance company.
November 19th, 2020 at 2:23 pm
21) Meant for 18 not 17
November 19th, 2020 at 2:34 pm
Sean M – I understand how aluminum hoods and fenders can coexist on a steel body. But I am curious how an aluminum roof coexists with steel quarter panels, etc.
November 19th, 2020 at 4:11 pm
Another source says the Maybach has a 4 liter twin turbo V8 putting out 496 horse with a 21 HP e-boost.
November 19th, 2020 at 4:12 pm
19 It looks like the top 7 suppliers had more revenue in 2018 than Tesla in 2018 or 2019.
November 19th, 2020 at 4:16 pm
25 According to KBB, for only ~$30K extra, you can get a V12.
November 19th, 2020 at 4:56 pm
12 – wmb – Maybach always seemed to me like mediocrity dialed up two notches. Those 21 HP of e-boost, though… breathless. I prefer the understatement of a Toyota Century.
Cadillac speeding up the Lyriq is great news. It can’t come fast enough, and I hope they’ll develop cars with a view to competing globally again. It’s all a matter of E-tiquette.
Just can’t see the Escalade moving beyond a hybrid. They should just keep it “classic” and milk that line.
26 – Kit – Irrespective of its valuation-du-jour, Tesla has only recently joined the ranks of automotive medium-weights. It’s just that the trajectory holds some promise…
November 19th, 2020 at 5:15 pm
GM Onstar Insurance – Many years ago (1970 when I completed school at GM) GM offered auto insurance at least to employees through Motors Insurance Corporation. My memory is that GM themselves covered collision insurance & farmed out the liability to some other company. My only contact was with MIC. Not sure when MIC disappeared from the GM portfolio.
November 19th, 2020 at 6:00 pm
29 I remember MIC when I was working at GM. I got a quote, and they were barely, if any lower than what I had.
November 19th, 2020 at 6:45 pm
The new F-150 hybrid will be available on all trim lines, even the basic XL, which is a smart move. The truck equipped with the hybrid will cycle the engine on/off based on the stuff plugged into the Pro Power tailgate. No need to lug a generator to the worksite or tailgate party or have to worry about it being stolen.
Ford will not certify that it will power your house in an emergency, but I bet it would with the 7.2 KW Pro Power setup.
November 19th, 2020 at 7:05 pm
31 The resistance heat at my condo is rated at 4800 watts, and my water heater is 4500 watts. so if the two ran at the same time, you’d be well over the 7.2 kW of the truck. You’d have more than enough to run the frig, TV, a couple burners on a stove, and a few other things. You’d just need to turn off some of the high current stuff, if you had electric “heating” equipment, and central A/C you had much else running.
November 19th, 2020 at 10:10 pm
#15-Kit; Mercedes-Benz is arguably the most successful luxury brand around the world! What it is not is an uber brand like Rolls Royce and Bentley. And it may burn Mercedes biscuits that these brands are owned by VW and BMW! IMHO, Mercedes doesn’t need to make Maybach a separate brand like they tried before, but putting more sparkle and shine on an S-Class and GLS-Class and raise up to 200K+! I mean, look, the 9 Series is built from the bones of the 5-7 Series, but its still a BMW. The Flying Spur/Continental came from the bones of the Phaeton (another luxury vehicle). In those two instances, the ending product were amazing vehicles in there own right! The difference with the Maybach is that it is still too close to the S-Class! A different paint job, funny front spoiler and much, much better interior appointments, in a on vehicles that still looks the same is a trim level and not a new model. I could see respect them calling their new EQS BEV a Maybach, more so then a loaded up S-Class.
November 19th, 2020 at 10:42 pm
33 To me, a $60K car is expensive, so these cars are in another world from what I actually buy, but I still find the ultra luxury cars interesting. To me, the Maybach sedan is to a Flying Spur or Ghost, what a Phaeton was to an S-Class. The Phaeton and Maybach was/is a less conspicuous competitor to the others, and for somewhat less money.
Yeah, the Maybach is way to similar to a regular S-Class to cost nearly twice as much, with twice as much being big numbers in this case. Still, maybe it could be considered a bargain compared with a Flying Spur, which uses a lot from from the VW parts bin. I think the Bentley looks cooler, though. Even the cheapest Rollers are in another realm, though. Don’t the Ghost and Wraith start at over $300K?.
November 19th, 2020 at 10:50 pm
34 Well, the Flying Spur looks more “special.” I don’t know that it looks “better” than the Maybach.
November 20th, 2020 at 3:32 am
34, 35 You clearly are not the Maybach targeted Demographic, not even the S class, for sure. But you still think you should comment on them, despite your deep ignorance on the subject matter.
WHy waste my time to explain? The usual suspects will side with your ignorance 100% than with the facts.
I am stunned especially at your ignorance of automotive history, the GLORIOUS Mercedeses of MANY decades, even recent ones.
The LEGENDARy 600 of 1963-81 was actually MUCH BETTER than the ROllses of its time and every head of state had to have one, while very few chose ROllers.
ANd I say this as a big fan of ROlls AND Bentley as well. But unlike you, I know what I am talking about.
Why don’t you try to educate yourself on the subject you want to post, before you do so? WHy don;t you look how many MILLIONS you have to pay at auctions to buy several legendary 30s Mercs? NO ROlls ROyce of that time could command a FRACTION of their price.
And as for $60k being too much for a car, this is actually the AVERAGE transaction price in the US of a STUPID PICKUP, and a couple years ago you could buy (I would not advice it) a Maserati Ghibli, BRAND NEW, with that $.
WHen you talk about ROlls, Maybach and Bentley prices of $300k, $500k or even $1 million,
You should TRY to imagine the people who will ACTUALLY SERIOUSLY COnsider buying them new.
Not only are these prices POCKET CHANGE compared to what some Ferraris fetch at auctions ($25 million , $30 million),
They are a TINY FRACTION of these buyer’s income and net worth.
Even if you are not ELon Musk with $115 billion, but a lowly billionaire, with barely $1 bilion.
WHat is even one MILLION compared to your net worth? 0.1%. TO buy the stupid car NEW, CASH. Or buy FIVE Maybachs, NEW, with 100% CASH.
SO to THESE Buyers, who are the INTENDED audience, these cars are DIRT CHEAP.
You should also try to understand what I often say, that once you have this kind of $, like even only ONE billion, You really cannot SPEND IT on yourself, at best you can invest it. THINK about it. DO some math, go tery to spend it in $1,000 dinners with $5,000 bottles of wine each. You STILL cannot spend it on just yourself.
November 20th, 2020 at 6:46 am
36 And I suppose you are the target demographic for these cars you talk about so much, even as you drive your dirty diesels, and gush over those far-from-luxury Teslas that sell for S-Class prices.
As far as automotive history, I know more on my little finger that you will ever know.
…and what, exactly, do collector car prices have to do with anything being made now? Nothing.
November 20th, 2020 at 7:06 am
Oh, and I never said anything about $60k being too much for a car, just that it was about as much as I pay for a car. Also, we determined a few days ago that the average transaction price in the US of a pickup truck is well below $60K, more like $45K, but you aren’t concerned about actual facts.
November 20th, 2020 at 7:18 am
36 …and since you want to talk about collector car prices, look up some lists of auction prices. There are dozens of Ferraris at the top for every Benz, and as many J Duesenbergs, of which only a few hundred were made, as there are Benzes in the top 50 or so.
November 20th, 2020 at 8:15 am
38-39 Dang I was beginning to think our local Tesla fanboy might have gotten banned after 15 hours and no posts.
wrong.
November 20th, 2020 at 10:43 am
36) You may want to read 34/35 again a little more slowly.
November 20th, 2020 at 10:50 am
As for the successor of the FAILED TOyobaru, it is just another joyless loser with derivative styling. The rear reminds of older BMW z3s, and the front/size reminded me of some Datsun-Nissan Zs. The engine is a pathetic 4. The interior is another depressing sea of cheap black plastics. No wonder the patron saint of all automotive losers is delighted that the fools at SUbaru decided to waste some of their wagon profits on this loser. Let’s have every other automaker make a loser like this, so you can have more ‘choice’. WHich loser do you fancy, Loser no 1 or no 14? Let’s tell KIA to make one like this too! And Hyundai too!
November 20th, 2020 at 11:49 am
Here’s shocking Wall Street news that might give a heart attack to a very well known individual who blogs on this site. The Almighty Tesla could be overtaken by GM according to Wall Street. How could a low tech company like GM beat the Almighty Tesla Company with the Super Genius, Elon Musk, at the helm? How could that ever happen???
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-general-motors-can-become-a-growth-stock-11605881120?mod=lead_feature_below_a_pos1