AD #3264 – Mustang Mach-E Dethrones Tesla Model 3; China Cuts Subsidies & EV Sales Plummet; Driving Ford’s E-Transit

February 18th, 2022 at 11:59am

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Runtime: 10:58

0:08 Ford Mustang Mach-E Dethrones Tesla Model 3
0:56 More Chips Won’t Bring Down Car Prices
1:35 China Cuts Subsidies & EV Sales Plummet
2:29 Honda Jumps on The Mobility Bandwagon
3:16 Renault Posts First Profit In 3 Years
3:36 Nissan To Make EVs In Canton
4:26 Bridgestone To Make New Tires from Recycled Ones
5:26 Schaeffler Develops Bearings for EVs
6:16 Mercedes Shows Historical Testing Method
7:29 Driving Ford’s E-Transit

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40 Comments to “AD #3264 – Mustang Mach-E Dethrones Tesla Model 3; China Cuts Subsidies & EV Sales Plummet; Driving Ford’s E-Transit”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Is the floor height of the E-Transit the same as with the gas and diesel ones?

  2. S65AMG Says:

    A. The so-called Mustang Mach E Porker “dethrones” the Model 3? Seriously? Just because the old lady at CR recommended it?

    First of all, did you notice in the same issue of CR that the MPGE of the Ford Porker is a lousy 90, while that of the Model 3 a STELLAR, BEST IN THE WORLD, 130? And second, the MPGE of the PROPER vehicle to compare with the Porker, the Model Y, is also excellent at 121 and FAR superior to the Porker?

    The proof will NOT be in the Old lady’s opinion of the Mexico-made Ford Porker, but in the SALES and esp PROFITS, CUMULATIVE, not just one month or two. At least for SERIOUS Industry watchers.

    B. I watched AAH yesterday, and it was informative. I wanted to point out John McElroy’s unbelievable reference to his darling Achates engine, where he put words in OUR Mouths, claiming that WE ALL (the audience of AAH) were so excited and crazy about this engine. SERIOUSLY, John? Didn’t you read the UNIVERSAL scepticism of the posters here? NOT ONE of us thought this engine is a serious development, and we lamented the waste of taxpayer money to the naive Achates people. Just to set the record Straight.

    C. Car prices not going down. You need to take into account that those car prices are NOT in 1980, 1990, 2000, or even 2010 Dollars. They are in WORTHLESS 2022 Inflated Dollars, and the inflation will NOT be tamed by the utter incompetent lefties of this Admin, who don’t even CARE to face this brutal tax on the POOR they claim to care about. I know it is difficult to get used to the worthless dollar, I myself frequently complain about the vastly higher prices of healthy groceries (unhealthy crappy foods as well, but I don’t eat them). As I repeatedly suggested, you need to express new car prices (or any other prices you talk about) in terms of HOW MANY WEEKS of the AVERAGE PERSON”s PAY are needed to buy the average new car.

    Having said that, I don’t deny current car prices are higher compared to last year or two, but this will not last forever.

    D. Dropped by the local library and saw the latest issue of C&D, which actually I prefer than the other car mags, but there was not ONE single vehicle featured I would care about. This is very unusual, every previous issue had multiple interesting vehicles in it.

    There were silly comparison tests on the track between ugly vehicles I would never consider, including nerdy Subarus, a Toyobaru (they thought it necessary to test BOTH the Toyo and the Sub versions), the BMW M3 whose grille (RI DI CU LOUS) looks like Bugs Bunny’s front teeth, etc.

    There was even an IONIC porker BEV, which weighed more than an S class, had a very long wheelbase (118″) in a very short overall length of 182″, and cost a RIDICULOUS $56k BASE price. Mind you, this is not even a pseudo-luxury GENESIS “SUV”, it’s the HYUNDAI Ioniq. Good luck with that.

    E. Back to AAH, John and Co claimed that their friends in Detroit are expecting Buyers to buy their overpriced BEVs because they will somehow wise up to their lower operating costs.

    Allow me to NOT be as optimistic. US Car buyers, on average, never did that. They ALWAYS base their purchases on FIRST PRICE, without doing the RIGHT thing, calculating the LIFE CYCLE COST of the vehicles they compare. (Seriously, these clowns could not count from 1 to 20 without taking their shoes off, esp those visiting domestic, Nissan, or Korean Dealerships!). So I predict that the overproduction of domestic and other BEVs will soon result in a HUGE GLUT of these POS, with the result that we will go all the way back to the BAD old times, where dealers and makers will slap $10,000 and $20,000 (remember the 2022 $ is worthless!) on their hoods, and they will STILL not be sold!

    If the silly automakers stop R&D on ICE and go whole hog BEVs, soon hundreds of millions of clunkers (REAL clunkers), like those 56 Chevys in CUBA, will roam the highways, and good and inventive mechanics will have a field day, as the nation sinks deeper into MALAISE and BANKRUPTCY.

  3. EV Pulse Says:

    @Kit: Yes the floor height is the same. Thanks for the question!

  4. S65AMG Says:

    You give us a lengthy review of the E Transit, but you don;t mention the most important factor of success at all, for a vehicle of such tiny range:

    Are its batteries SWAPPABLE???? And how long does it take to swap them, in the unlikely case they are?

    if they are not, then it is a poor design. There MAY be cases where the “UP TO” 125 mile range is adequate, for strictly city short distance hopping with long waits, even in winter where this “UP to 125″ will become “UP to 60 miles”!. But if the batteries were swappable, everybody would rush to buy one, given that the swap can be done in 5-10 mins tops.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 Thanks for the info.

  6. Lex Says:

    Great Job Chad!

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 The range of the E-Transit is adequate for the vast majority of cargo vans I see every day, whether local trades people, cable company service vans, or UPS delivery. Soon, that short range will be adequate for Amazon delivery, as they will be opening a warehouse near my local delivery area.

  8. Dave Says:

    a major contributer of $$$ to consumer reports is the Ford Foundation. Pecuniary [$] interest?

  9. SteveO Says:

    BMW Jeff Koons Edition update: As of last night, all of the reservations were taken! Slots are available on the waiting list, however…

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 Ford Foundation has no connection with the Ford Motor Company, and hasn’t for 40+ years.

    As far as Consumer Reports evaluation of Model 3 and Mach-E, I displayed their ratings for different factors side by side on the CR web site, they make sense. The versions they tested were basically equal in acceleration, and the Tesla had better “emergency handling.” The Ford rode better and was quieter. Having driven a Model 3, I suspect it got dinged a little for noise, mainly because of wind noise, and road noise on noisy pavement. The Tesla had better ratings for some comfort factors, like seat comfort, but had the lowest rating for controls and displays, which it deserved, from my experience. As mentioned, the 3, like all Teslas, has better efficiency than competing EVs. I suspect it’s the motors, unless they have a way to cheat on the ratings, as some ICE makers have been known to do. I would expect the motor controllers of all EVs to have similar efficiency. If anyone knows otherwise, let us know.

    The bottom line is that the Model 3 got a slightly higher “road test score” from CR than the Mach-E, but the Ford got a higher overall score, probably because of better reliability survey results. The Tesla Model Y got a higher road test score than either, but a lower overall score because of dismal reliability. The Model Y reliability improved between 2020 and 2021 model year, a good sign.

  11. Drew Says:

    @8 – I hope you know the Ford Foundation is not related to the Ford Motor Company… other than by name.

  12. Drew Says:

    @2 – Too much caffeine today? I noticed you missed insulting a couple of other people… the Pope and Mother Teresa (postmortem). :(

  13. ChuckGrenci Says:

    While car prices may not come down in the near future, when the market reaches near homeostasis, as in the way it was pre-covid/chips/inflation, the automakers will continue to grasp for market share and competition will resume. And if they want to keep sales at traditional levels they will need those buyers that are being priced out by these escalating prices, as wages are not keeping up with inflation; not to mention increasing cost of borrowing money.

  14. Merv Peters Says:

    Ford has certainly bought into the e program in a big way,and seems to be doing it right.

  15. wmb Says:

    I don’t see why there are those who feel so hurt that the Mach E bested the Model 3? That is no demerit to the Model 3 or the Model y, it’s just an example of competition making all products better! Trust me on this, Tesla will not take this motivation lying down and you can bet your bottom dollar, Tesla will move the game forward. As the products of more OEMs come to market, their will be those that take the title from Ford and others who take it from them! This is all going t9 make it better for the consumer, US, the buying public! That said, it’s okay for each of us to have our favorites, but to get upset and call names because the competition has, for a second, has something a little better, it’s fines! Getting mad, screaming insults and not applauding the successes of others, only shows how much little faith one has in their favorite brand. That you don’t feel that they can stepping up to meet it or exceed their current challenge, and that your only strength is to attempt to tear down that what you envy! There is really no reason for such vitriol, for there’s nothing that says that we can’t wish and hope for everyone to succeed!

  16. Wim van Acker Says:

    @14 Ford has done a great job. My wife and my son each own a Mach-e and we love those two vehicles. My wife has the 330 HP version and our son has the 480 HP GT version. 330 HP make it a fast, yet practical, vehicle. The 480 HP are a lot to handle for me, but my son says “it is about right”. He believes they should have added a two speed transmission like TESLA has: he is faster than most friends with fast cars from 0-60 mph, but they catch up between 60 and 90 mph. First World problems.

    We bought wheels plus winter tires for both and with those the vehicles drive very well in the Michigan winter.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 Yep, Mach-E is selling well, and Lightning should as well. They may have hurt sales of Mustangs, though, by using that name on the Mach-E. Challenger outsold Mustang in 2021, the only time that has ever happened.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 Porsche Taycan is the EV with a shifting 2-speed tranmission. I think Tesla uses a different ratio between front and rear on some versions.

  19. Wim van Acker Says:

    @18 thanks, Kit. I did not know that.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Some of what I’ve read is that the Taycan’s 2-speed doesn’t gain much, except maybe a little better performance at very high speed.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1819,20 Car and driver says the two-speed in the Taycan helps the low speed acceleration, and higher speed efficiency. That makes sense, all things being equal, but they apparently aren’t equal. A Tesla Plaid, with its one speed transmissions is quicker than the quickest Taycan, and much more efficient. While Tesla is lacking compared to some others in build quality, controls and displays, they still have everyone else beat in efficiency and performance of their EV powertrains.

  22. Bob Wilson Says:

    I hope the Mach-E owners have as much success as I’ve had with our Model 3 with three years and 62,413 miles. Given how EV demand exceeds production, future EV customers are pretty much all on waiting lists.

    I prefer the engineering analysis by “Munro Live” over “Consumer Reports.” Munro pointed out the plumbing nightmare of the Mach-E heating and cooling compared to the 1/3d size of the Model 3. There is an inverse relationship between parts and reliability.

    Edwards Deming put it, “Without data, you’re just another person with an opinion.” Without insight into data, people make decisions based on instinct, speculation, or prevalent theory. People are at risk of acting on biases or false assumptions. That is “Consumer Reports” in a nutshell … no data.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Munro and CR evaluate vehicles from different perspectives, and both are useful.

    As far as parts count vs reliability, that depends. It brings to mind the owner of a BMW motorcycle dealer when the Honda 750 four hit the market in the early 1970s. He said something like “those things can’t be reliable, with all of those parts.” Well, the Honda fours were reliable, probably as reliable as BMWs of the time, and of course, much more reliable than the Harley-Davidsons of the time, which had fewer parts.

    Actually, CR does have data on reliability, from their surveys. Some responders might lie on the surveys, but it doesn’t seem like people lie “in favor” of their cars to a large extent. At least cars like Corvette, and all Teslas have very high “owner satisfaction” in CR’s surveys, but Model S, Model Y, and Corvette have very low reliability in the CR survey. For what it’s worth, my Corvette sample of one has been completely reliable, so far, after about 3 months and 4000 miles.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled

  25. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I saw a similar report yesterday and was wondering whether it was battery related. It seems so, per the Captain. When I saw the billowy white smoke I surmised it was; noting the fires seen when watching Battle Bots on TV.

  26. S65AMG Says:

    First, a GREAT Review of the Mach E in its ridiculously heavy (5,000 lb), ridiculously expensive ($71,348) from Pulitzer-Winning Auto Reviewer Dan Neil, in the nations ONLY Trusted Newspaper, The Wall Street Journal:

    I am reading the hard copy at the library, but you may find it on the web. No link to give.

    I will cut to the chase, and I quote:

    “Built to rival T3esla’s Model Y (Sean, you hear? NOT the Super-Seller Model 3, which is NOT a “crossover” porker like the Mach E), the Mach E GT Performance Edition doesn’t, (rival it), not in the usual Figures of Merit.

    EPA est range 260 vs 303 miles for Tesla

    and performance (12.7 sec in the 1/4 mile, as tested by C&D, compared to 12.1 sec for the Model Y Performance.)

    The Mach-E’s fundamental product-design challenge -the size and weight of the battery pack, relative to the Tesla’s-jumps out of the numbers. These vehicles measure roughly the same on the outside. But the Tesla’s more compact battery pack, power electronics and drive modules preserve 76 cubic feet of cargo space behind the front seats, compared to the Ford’s 59.6

    Meanwhile, the Ford weighs 4,989 lbs; the Tesla, 4,555 lbs.

    Given these deficits, it’s worth considering what might have motivated mach-E buyers to choose the Ford over Tesla.

    Protest vote? Elon canceling? That might account for 10%. Mustang superfans? (now here is a CULT, Kit!) Five percent, and they’d have to be real simps.

    (the article continues to find the reason, looking at extgerior and interior design)

    “Interior design? Some people -not me- allege that Tesla’s interior environment is too sterile and unfamiliar. …”

    “As for the touch screen UX, Tesla’s is the greatest and the Ford’s is fairly ordinary.”

    and so on and so forth. I wonder why Wim and Son, who is no Tesla hater, chose not one but two Mach E’s (Curious to hear from him why). COuld it be they did not want to wait to get their Model Y? No other rational explanation comes to mind.

    In MY opinion, while the Mach E is far superior for the UTTERLY Failed, money-losing (like crazy!) Bolt and Fiat 500 E and Mini E and all these other LOSERS, and while it is made in Mexico and guarantees profitability even for its inefficient, lame design by using cheap as sin labor, it is no threat to any Tesla, LEAST OF ALL THE MODEL 3, and probably not the Model Y either.

    I understand Ford has a zillion dealers, which may explain the good Mach E sales for the last month or two, and the next month or two, but the party will not last forever.

  27. S65AMG Says:

    “22. Bob Wilson Says:
    February 19th, 2022 at 5:01 am

    I hope the Mach-E owners have as much success as I’ve had with our Model 3 with three years and 62,413 miles.”

    Define “success”. if you say that you just LUSTED after the Model 3 (which is weird to me, a model S fan), like Jimmy Carter said he lusted after the Playboy chick, I would understand it and talk no further. But if you are trying to RATIONALIZE a “Got to have it” decision, which seems to be what you did, I don’t buy it.

    You paid a HUGE price in your BEV and Plug-in choices.

    First of all, you paid an enormous $50,000 (not in today’s worthless dollars, but back when they were worth SOMETHING) to buy the utterly underwhelming, failed i3, and you are still stuck with it. I would not pay $20,000 (not even in today;s worthless$ because the i3 is obsolete as the Mini E and the Fiat 500E and just does not cut it).

    Second, you had an OUTSTANDING car in the Prius Plug-in, (Prime) and you sold it for peanuts, compared to what it fetches now, and how much it would have saved you, both in $, but also in all-important TIME wasted to wait to charge your Model 3.

    Plug-ins would be the prefect “bridge” vehicles until we are READY to enter the Electric Age, and so far we sure are NOT, not even in CA, where half the BEV sales have occurred in the USA.

    Plug-ins are expensive and inefficient compared to BEVs because of the two power plants, and not 100% clean to the green cultists, but they are the rational choice so far.

    You would have been infinitely better off if you never bought the i3, if you have kept the Prius Plug-in, and, if you needed a 2nd car (and NOT otherwise), then bought the Model 3.

    But again, if you stop trying to rationalize your decisions by often quoting the few insignificant savings in fuel, which are 500% canceled by all the financial hits you took by your decision, not to mention the valuable time you still waste charging on all these long trips you take (for which I wonder how many did you actually need to take and how many were taken just to enjoy the Model 3), I’d say OK.

    One other thing, the Model 3 seems as wasted on you as all these sports cars (2 corvettes and the Cayman) are on Kit, since neither you nor he seem to appreciate the sheer performance of your vehicles, and never tell us if you ever had any actual FUN with them, other than counting their… MPGs.

    S
    Given how EV demand exceeds production, future EV customers are pretty much all on waiting lists.

  28. S65AMG Says:

    The above message to Bob reminded me of the latest Prius generation and the Prius story in general.

    The Prius is an AMAZING Achievement for its time (2000-2022). MMost here have no clue how much this is true, and I am not surprised.

    Each successive generation has been 10+% MORE fuel efficient than the previous one, this was a design Constraint to be satisfied, ordered by Toyota.

    Buyers of Prii and Prius fans in general were abused as much as TESLA fans are today.

    There was even a hilarious “South Park” episode where a lawyer buys a “Pius” (thinly disguised Prius) and proceeds to behave in a “holier than thou” fashion vs his friends.

    The First gen Prius was an utterly unfortunate design, based on the tiny porker the Echo (pork-shaped, not weightwise).

    I have driven the 2nd Gen Prius in LAX and around LA and San Diego in 2009 and got OUTSTANDING results, 51+ city, 47+ Hwy, and 63-69 on country roads with thin traffic.

    My friend and neighbor Mike Karesh, who has a free Prius II from his sister in his driveway, but drives a Mazda RX8 (go figure), told me that he drove the current (non-plug in) Prius and got it up to 95 MPG. (RIGHT, 95)

    and not only that, he mentioned a professional Toyota pays to max MPG who got 120.

    Compare this to the RIDICULOUS 8.3 MPG of the FUGLY USPS NEW vehicles, and cry for the wqawste of even more billions. And I bet Senile Uncle Joe, at the recommendation of the EPA, will give these criminally incompetent and corrupt USPS guys an extra billion or two, to make these utter hogs ‘efficient’ (even if it goes from 8.3 to 12.4 MPG, a 50% improvement!)

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 I haven’t heard if the fire started in one of the cars, or if the cars just kept it going, and spreading? Even if something else started the fire, a problem is that you can’t easily remove the huge amount of combustible material from an EV for shipping, like they do with a gas car. With gas cars, they ship them with barely enough fuel to drive them on and off of the ship. Even with vehicles tightly packed, a quart of gas from one car is not likely to create a fire that gets completely out of control.

  30. S65AMG Says:

    An to follow up on the Prius and MPG discussion. Why the hell, if fuel prices are so damned high and hurting, why in the world aren’t Pruis sales THRU THE ROOF, instead of being lower and lower each year? (yeah, they buy the far less efficient (Both of them) Rav4 and Camrfy hybrids)

    And another one, not as easy to answer: Why in the world does senile uncle Joe have to kneel to the terrorist-funding, journalist-murdering Saudis and BEG them to increase their oil production, and they not only give him the finger, but they keep DECREASING it, to greedily push oil prices above 100 worthless 2022 Biden $?

    And the most important one: One would think that the US FRACKING industry, would be utterly Delighted with those ‘lofty’ oil prices and increase their production thru the roof, thereby giving the Saudis, Russians, Iranians, and other greedy OPEC clowns the Finger?

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 Part of why people would buy the Mach-E over a Tesla is that you can buy it, or at least order it and wait, from a nearby dealer, and get it serviced locally. If I had a Tesla, I’d be able to get it serviced locally, while in Florida, but most people aren’t that lucky. Another reason people might buy a Mach-E is that the base version is $15K less expensive than the Model Y, its real competition from Tesla. I don’t know what the current mix is, or if you can order a base Mach-E, but if you can, $15K is significant to a lot of people. Then, some people would like to be able to see the speedometer without looking about 45 degrees to the right.

    According to the Tesla web site, estimated delivery of an ordered Model Y Performance is April 2022, and it’s August for a Long Range. I don’t know what the wait would be for a Mach-E.

  32. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Kit, I used this statement in the story to make the assumption “Lithium-ion batteries in the electric cars on board have caught fire and the blaze requires specialist equipment to extinguish, captain Joao Mendes Cabecas of the port of Hortas said.”

  33. S65AMG Says:

    Now as for the so-called “Data” in CR, I hate to repeat this over and over again on deaf ears, but they are SERIOUSLY FLAWED.

    Not only are they OWNER-REPORTED, which means JUNK.

    Not only do they have a ton of NOISE (ask Mike Karesh of “True Delta”. he pointed this out to me when I drove him to IN to the Dues-Aub-Cord museum last Tue)

    Not only are they utterly INCONSISTENT, with Audis of one year being ‘great’ (allegedly) and another year not,.

    IF you submitted a SCIENTIFIC paper using these “data”, no self-respecting Archival Journal would accept the conclusions as valid.

    And this is exacerbated in TODAY’s environment, where millions of Tech-illiterate Geezers buy cars they have no clue how to operate, and then COMPLAIN about the difficulty (touch screens, controls etc) as if it is the Maker’s fault?

    Give me a break. CR cannot and does not distinguish between a real problem and owner cluelessness and stupidity and above all failure to read the damned manual.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30 The Camry LE hybrid gets better EPA mpg than a 3rd generation Prius, and from my experience, that carries over in real-world driving. The current Prius gets slightly better city mpg and slightly worse highway mph than the Camry. All of them get great milage.

    The Camry is quieter, quicker, and more comfortable. The Prius has more utility, being a liftback. Those are the tradeoffs.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31767&id=44079&id=44350

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The “big” 2.5 liter Toyota hybrids get about 2/3 the mpg of the Prius and Camry.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=44079&id=44350&id=44651&id=44551

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 CR’s reliability survey results are listed by “trouble spot.” People who actually look at the published results can distinguish between a real problem and “owner cluelessness.” The model Y’s showing “much worse than average” for paint/trim, body hardware, and body integrity are not “owner cluelessness.” They are well known problems with the Y, at least early ones. Climate system also showed bad results for 2021 model, and I’ve heard that there are some real issues with that.

  37. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Kit and others interested in the ZO6 LT6; specifications and data slides:

    you may want to skip to 14:30 (unless you want the rest of the show, but engine specs. start then)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axXcLKDcr20

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 I’ll check it out. Thanks.

  39. Lambo2015 Says:

    China can cut subsidies and they will likely see a temporary slight change in sales. Same here in the US as EVs need to stand on their own merits. Which includes the government getting out of mandating EVs basically by banning ICE vehicles. To me all sales numbers are skewed to actual demand until the consumer truly has a choice without government influence. That includes rebates, incentives and ICE bans.
    I see the resident crybaby got all butt hurt over some positive reviews of the Mach-e. Hilarious. Only had to read the first sentence of his first post to know I could skip over the rest of the nonsense. That cut the comment section by about 2/3. Good Job Ford! I suspect the Lightning will have similar reviews when compared to the cybertruck. If uniqueness was the only category Tesla would win hands down but then again so would have the Pontiac Aztek back in the day.

  40. Lambo2015 Says:

    37 Very cool link. A naturally aspirated engine achieving over 110% volumetric efficiency. GM has done some incredible things with that engine. You just know the speed shops are going to trying to add induction or NoS. I wonder how much further it can be pushed? That is an incredible motor no doubt. Wish I could buy one.