AD #3487 – VinFast Offering Deals Because Tesla Cut Prices; Michigan Welcomes Chinese Investment; Shell Buys EV Charging Network
January 19th, 2023 at 11:51am
Listen to “AD #3487 – VinFast Offering Deals Because Tesla Cut Prices; Michigan Welcomes Chinese Investment; Shell Buys EV Charging Network” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:24
0:00 VinFast Offering Sales Promos to Compete with Tesla
0:44 Michigan Welcomes Chinese Investment
1:46 CATL Starts Making Chassis w/ Integrated Cells
2:45 Shell Buys EV Charging Network
3:21 Winnebago Going Electric
4:26 VW Develops Smart HVAC System
6:52 EV Sales Top 1 Million in the EU
7:48 Mercedes Improves Electrified CLAs
8:32 Porsche Offers Modern Screens for Old Cars
9:17 Cox Automotive Less Optimistic on Sales
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VINFAST TO OFFER DEALS TO COMPETE WITH TESTA
Tesla’s price war is starting to take casualties. Several automakers in China already cut prices and now Vietnamese automaker VinFast, says it will offer sales promotions in the U.S. to keep its models competitive with Tesla. VinFast started shipping its first vehicles to the U.S. in November and plans to start delivering them this month. We think most automakers will probably offer discounts and deals on their EVs instead of chopping the MSRP. Because once you cut the MSRP, it really hurts your residual values.
MICHIGAN WELCOMES CHINESE INVESTMENT
You’ve probably heard that old saying from Alexander Graham Bell, “When one door closes, another opens.” Well, yesterday we reported that the Governor of Virginia Glenn Youngkin slammed the door on Ford and Chinese company CATL who wanted to build a battery plant in his state. But today the Governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, opened the door for that plant to land in her state. Governor Younkin says the battery plant would, and I quote, “serve as a front for the Chinese Communist party, which could compromise our economic security and Virginians’ personal privacy.” But Governor Whitmer said, and I quote, “We are focused on jobs for Michiganders and securing (that) the future of mobility is built in Michigan by Michiganders.” That plant is expected to generate 2,500 jobs and represent a multibillion dollar investment. So what do you think? If you were a governor would you want that plant in your state?
CATL STARTS MAKING CHASSIS WITH INTEGRATED CELLS
Meanwhile, CATL, which is the biggest EV battery maker in the world is moving beyond just making batteries. It’s going to start making chassis with integrated battery cells. That gets rid of the need for battery modules, which cuts size, cost and weight. And that makes us wonder if Ford would use that approach in its next generation EVs.
SHELL BUYS EV CHARGING NETWORK
Here’s an interesting development. Shell’s U.S. subsidiary announced it’s buying the EV charging network Volta for $169 million. Shell USA will acquire all of Volta’s assets, including its network of 3,000 charge points located in 31 states. We find it interesting that an oil company is jumping into the EV charging business and it’s something we’re seeing more of. Shell has a deal with BYD to build chargers in China and BP is investing over a billion dollars to install chargers around the world.
WINNEBAGO GOING ELECTRIC
Many people are enamored with #vanlife and like the rest of the industry, it too is going electric. Motorhome company Winnebago is in the final stages of field testing its EV camper prototype, called the eRV2. It’s based on the Ford E-Transit and provides an estimated 108 miles of range from its 68 kWh battery pack. Winnebago also says it’s looking at coming up with some sort of range extension system for a future version. And in order to power all the accessories, the company developed its own in-house battery system, called IonBlade. When combined with a 900 watt solar system that starts just behind the windshield, on the roof, it can provide enough juice for a week of off-grid camping or boondocking. Winnebago is not saying when it will go on sale, only that these tests “will inform the eRV2’s final design before hitting dealerships in the future.”
VW DEVELOPS NEW SMART HVAC SYSTEM
Efficiency is extremely important to EV range, so Volkswagen developed a new smart HVAC system that will first debut on the ID.7. And it actually all starts before the driver even enters the vehicle. As soon as it detects the key approaching, the system activates and adapts to outside conditions. When the door is opened, it can also automatically control airflow to keep really hot or cold air out of the cabin and when users sit down it can redirect the air directly onto their body, so they get comfortable quickly. This automatic airflow control allows for voice commands as well, like “Hello Volkswagen, my hands are cold” and it will turn the vents to the steering wheel. The last bit of cool tech is the system has been integrated with a light sensor on the windshield, so it can detect the angle of sunlight and adapt the air conditioning system on the side that’s getting blasted by light. The ID.7 launches in China and Europe this year, followed by North America in 2024.
We’ve got a great Autoline After Hours show coming up this afternoon. It’s all about Project Arrow, that Canadian project to create an electric car completely and entirely in Canada–even the raw materials. Flavio Volpe, the head of the Automotive Parts Manufacturing Association of Canada, which helped spearhead the project will be on the show. So will EV expert and journalist John Voelcker. We’ll also get into other EV topics, like the EV price war that Tesla started, and whether states should shut out Chinese battery suppliers or welcome their investment. So join John and Gary when the action gets going at 3 pm eastern time today.
EV SALES TOP 1 MILLION IN THE EU
Fiat surprised everyone when the 500e became the best selling EV in Europe last year for A-segment cars. It sold over 44,000 of them. So we were also pleasantly surprised to see that the Peugeot 208e was the best selling EV in the B-segment. Peugeot sold 21,700 of them. All told there were over 1.2 million EVs sold in Europe last year according to the website EU-EVs, which tracks registrations in European countries. Tesla topped the list with 15% market share, followed by the Volkswagen brand at 11.3%. But if you count the entire Volkswagen Group, including Audi, Porsche, Skoda and SEAT, it outsold Tesla, about 277,000 for the VW Group and about 193,000 for Tesla.
MERCEDES IMPROVES ELECTRIFIED CLAs
Mercedes is improving the electrified versions of the CLA. Actually the whole CLA line is getting a fresh styling front and rear, a new user experience and updated driver assistance system. But the real story is that mild-hybrid versions get a new starter/generator with 10 kW more power, which also improves efficiency, and plug-in versions get more power and a bigger battery. Electric motor power increase slightly to 80 kW and the battery is now 15.6 kWh, which provides 68-82 kilometers or 42-50 miles depending on the model.
PORSCHE MAKES MODERN SCREENS AVAILABLE FOR OLD CARS
In 2020, Porsche started offering infotainment screens that can be retrofitted into older cars. And now it’s making them available for more models. It features a 7-inch touchscreen, navigation, Bluetooth, Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. And there are regional versions available as well, so owners in the U.S. and Canada can get systems with SiriusXM ready. The screens are now available for 911 Type 997s, Boxsters and Caymans from 2005-2008 as well as Cayenne’s from 2003-2008. The screens cost about $1,500 and can be ordered from the dealer.
COX AUTOMOTIVE LESS OPTIMISTIC ON SALES
Hold the horses! Up to now most automakers and forecasters thought that new car sales in the U.S. would hit around 15 million vehicles this year. But the analysts at Cox Automotive think that’s too optimistic. They say sales will come in around 14.1 million and they blame economic uncertainty–but with one caveat. If some automaker decides to go for volume and starts cranking up inventory and offering discounts, sales could be higher. But Cox Automotive believes automakers would rather sell 14 million vehicles profitably, than sell 15 million with big discounts.
But that’s a wrap for today. Thanks for joining us.
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Comments (39)
January 19th, 2023 at 12:12 pm
Virginia’s Glenn Youngkin must think that you have to be located within the state to conduct cyber attacks. Not really sure how having a battery plant could be anymore of a threat to economic or personal security than they are from China. Id much rather they set up shop here and provide jobs for Americans than build batteries there and just ship them here.
Will the VW know the difference of me approaching the car or if I keep my keys just inside the house 10 feet from the garage and not try to maintain the climate inside the car the whole time my car is parked?
January 19th, 2023 at 12:13 pm
Shell are building out their EV network in Canada too. Projected to have 500 sites nation wide by 2025. I guess they need a place to spend their recent oil profits.
January 19th, 2023 at 12:14 pm
So, we have Michigan’s governor with myopia and Virgina’s governor with hyperopia (if his thinking is correct); who’s right, well that’s the question. My take, and I’m not fully versed in global strategies, is that China isn’t to be trusted so I’m with Virginia’s governor on this topic. America has already sold its soul to China with selling our technology and manufacturing prowess over the years. This, just another “foot in the door”; maybe?
January 19th, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Think any of those Porsche screens will fir my old 2001 Audi Allroad?
January 19th, 2023 at 12:17 pm
On the VW smart HVAC system. I just have to think is this something that is really needed? Its like the solution to a problem no one ever had. Yea the car gets warmer on the side of the sun but I need separate climate control anyway or my wife is freezing and now I have to throw in the car trying to make adjustments too.
I also think about aging vehicles and when things come off warranty and start to fail. So I may have a vehicle thats constantly adjusting the HVAC system to who knows what. Or maybe need a $1000 service to correct the problem.. Yeah I can move vents adjust heat and turn on steering wheel heater myself. I would not want this on any of my vehicles.
January 19th, 2023 at 12:24 pm
The problem with automakers selling 14 Million with great profits verses 15 Million with discountes is the shareholders will see some decent returns and then pressure executives to maintain that level of return in the future. Which means prices will stay high, and the consumer will see less and less discounts. Making it even easier for the Chinese to swing in and undercut domestic markets with cheap imports.
January 19th, 2023 at 1:05 pm
I believe that many or most Chinese OEMs are owned or controlled by one or more governments in China. I also think, like most governments, they focus on jobs. So Chinese manufacturers are not under the same pressure to provide profits for investors. It’s a problem for western companies.
January 19th, 2023 at 1:06 pm
The issue of collaborating with a major Chinese company is dependent on the details. Will CATL be collecting capacity and IP to send back to China? Or will Ford be collecting CATL’s capacity and IP for use in North America? If the former, I favor the Virginia governor’s position. If the latter, I favor the Michigan governor’s position.
For the last 2 decades (if not longer), the Chinese have forced western OEMs to transfer capacity and IP to China. As such, I can understand Chuck’s skepticism. But we need localized battery capacity and intelligence.
Bottom line, I hope Ford and our government are as shrewd as the Chinese in the terms of the deal.
January 19th, 2023 at 1:25 pm
Sean, Why are Americans so afraid of foreign investment? If CATL spends billions on factories is the US, then they have a vested interest in the US being prosperous, if only to protect their investment. A Chinese owned factory does not somehow give them the ability to move people or material in or out of the country. The US could even demand that ALL jobs at the plant be Americans, even the managers. Manufacturing in Canada is something like 50% US owned. No one here believes that those companies are fronts for the CIA. Some Americans need to get a grip on reality.
January 19th, 2023 at 1:27 pm
PS The ‘forced transfer of technology’ only occurs INSIDE China. Apparently they want more than jobs and CIA spies when they let American investment in.
January 19th, 2023 at 1:37 pm
Youngkin in Virginia just thinks it is good politics to be “anti-China.” China can spy on the US from China, or anywhere else, just as the US spies on China from everywhere. I don’t see Kentucky politicians wanting to run GE appliances, with their ~6000 employees, out of Louisville, just because they are now a Chinese company. As Kevin alludes, foreign investment in the US is good for the US, whether CATL, BMW, Toyota, or GE Appliances, now owned by Haier.
January 19th, 2023 at 1:50 pm
I’m with Youngkin on this one. Most conspiracy theories are true – time will tell.
Additionally, I am hard pressed to find one major decision Dim-Whitmer has made that I agree with. It isn’t bad enough she forced our kids (totally unnecessarily) to learn remotely for a year and a half during covid (setting them way back academically). Then, come time for re-election, claimed that she ‘fought hard’ for the schools to re-open – total BS!! And that’s just the tip of the iceberg for me…
January 19th, 2023 at 2:12 pm
MJB – I’m not sure most conspiracy theories are true (except in Tom Clancy novels). But I thoroughly agree Whitless… er… Whitmer can’t be trusted. 4.5 years ago she ran for governor on the slogan “fix the damn roads”. Her 1st act as guv was to propose a $0.45/ gallon gas tax in the name of the roads, except not one thin dime was earmarked for the roads. The largess would go to politically-based favors. Luckily, the split government rejected her scheme. But Michiganders, hold on to your wallet, as we no longer have a split government.
January 19th, 2023 at 2:14 pm
“ most conspiracy theories are true” uhhhh I don’t think that’s correct.
January 19th, 2023 at 2:21 pm
Americans – “ why is everything made in China and not here”
Also Americans – “no way do I want them making stuff here”
January 19th, 2023 at 2:34 pm
Last week it was Wyoming wanting to ban EVs from being sold in the state to protect the oil companies, and now Virginia stopping a battery manufacturing plant for a bogeyman excuse. Notice any common thread between these states? When oh when will people stop voting for people that are living in the 1950s and have zero interest or ability to see the future?
January 19th, 2023 at 2:35 pm
As long as we are talking politics … Article 5 of the constitution of the United States makes it so that the state legislatures can amend the constitution, notably without any input from the federal government or federal bureaucracy, thus minimizing self serving ‘swamp’ input from both or any political party. The mechanism is convention of the states, with appropriate state ratification safeguards. It is a movement gaining momentum. I reference https://conventionofstates.com for those interested.
January 19th, 2023 at 3:04 pm
I try and shop local as much as possible and drive my local economy.
January 19th, 2023 at 3:17 pm
You may be correct Sean in saying companies would prefer to offer incentives rather than lower retail prices, but Tesla seems to be happy jerking prices all over the place and so far, the rapid and large retail price shifts don’t seem to annoy too many customers.
January 19th, 2023 at 3:50 pm
For those that dismiss Younkin’s concerns, you might reference the DoD’s concerns with Huawei’s equipment remotely near US military bases. There is a ton of espionage concern all over the US (not just cybersecurity) and we get peeks of it through various articles regarding Chinese consulates, Chinese nationalist ‘police stations’, and even Chinese restaurants catering to Chinese nationalists in the US. These are widely reported and the conspiracy is your unwillingness to see it for what it is.
January 19th, 2023 at 3:58 pm
Just for clarity, I am not the same Tim in 20, but I do share his concerns.
January 19th, 2023 at 4:18 pm
20,21. Huawei is a telecomm company. CATL is a battery company. There is a difference.
January 19th, 2023 at 4:40 pm
22, certainly the difference isn’t in the fact that they are CCP controlled. I don’t care if they make pitchforks, the concern is the same. Of course, we know the supply chains for huawei and catl are both about as brutal as can be.
January 19th, 2023 at 4:49 pm
23 So you think Haier should move GE Appliances’ 12,000 U.S. jobs to China?
January 19th, 2023 at 5:05 pm
24, We shouldn’t have allowed that in the first place. But hey, if you aren’t worried about the CCP, just keep on keeping on until you can’t.
January 19th, 2023 at 5:08 pm
Regarding the CATL chassis with with integrated battery cells, the other day Autoline Daily reported on a supplier that had created a system, to report damage (from small rocks, stores and other debris on the road surface) to the underbelly of an EV where the battery cell were stored. CATL’s solution, much like Tesla’s, would save weight in the vehicle, but could, as I understand, might not be as robust as encapsulating the battery cells in a tray or some type of container at the bottom of the vehicle. While I had read news articles about debris hitting the lower battery ‘chambers’ in EVs, which have resulted in massive fires, I always assumed that the undercarriages of electric vehicles, were made to the same strength standards of ICE vehicles?! In the 40+ years I have been a driver, I have run over sticks, branches, stones, rocks, car parts, pot holes, curbs, speed bumps and a host of other objects in the road, that have been hidden under the cover of darkness. With many of those things hitting the bottom of the vehicle, I near once had the experience of those object doing major damage, or puncturing the floor pan of my vehicle! So, if the underbelly of BEVs were made to the same thickness of your average ICE floor pan, , how is it that simple road debris could possibly do so much catastrophic damage in an EV? That’s what I can’t get me head around. Are automakers using weaker materials for the roadside battery covers? I had a family member driver over a big rock and while it dented the floorboard, it didn’t puncture it! Shouldn’t/aren’t OEMs building electric vehicle floor pans to the same structural standards? I don’t get it?
January 19th, 2023 at 5:39 pm
You MAGATs are amusing, are you going to call for the expulsion of all Chinese restaurants too, everybody knows that the fortune cookies are really tracking devices that once eaten will continuously report out on your location and other food choices that you make, enabling CHIIIIINA to gather all sorts of important data on you. As the saying goes, there is one born every minute…
January 19th, 2023 at 7:08 pm
27 – totally agree with you! It’s a world economy out there, and if you are going to get rid of all things Chinese, you better do the same for all things German (after all, Hitler is probably still alive in Argentina), Mexican (they are gathering data on how not to pay for the wall), and Japanese (they may well be planning another surprise attack on Pearl Harbor). As someone earlier said, it’s not 1950! We all need to look toward the future, and you can’t complain about stuff being made elsewhere if you aren’t going to allow the manufacturing to take place right here in the good old US of A.
January 19th, 2023 at 7:14 pm
On something else – EV’s have now been around long enough that many should be old enough to be getting traded in. Is there any data out there regarding used EV’s being traded in on new EV”s vs new ICE vehicles? I’m curious if those purchasing EV’s are pleased enough with them to purchase another one?
January 20th, 2023 at 6:08 am
This is the best description on how the E-Ray works and why it is so well thought out; link (if interested): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WPq9eZhEBc
January 20th, 2023 at 7:49 am
28 You summed up what I was thinking. However the biggest difference is, with the Germans and Japanese is that business is business and in China the CCP is part of the business. I wouldnt put it past them to use a businesses for political purposes but I’m just not really sure how having a factory here makes us any more vulnerable. Here in the US inspectors from EPA or OSHA or even the government could have access to the plant if they thought something was going on that threatened national security.
As for conspiracy theories, that’s just a term the government created to dismiss people that questioned the narrative that they were officially pushing. Our own government has given us plenty of examples why they cannot be trusted so I tend to believe we should question most things. Especially when money is involved. Recently many theories are proving to be true. Maybe not most, as some real doosies are generated but a good number of them. I just dont think a Chinese battery factory changes the security of anything. Dosnt make getting anything into the country easier. Doesnt make getting onto a military base any easier. Doesnt make the internet any less secure. Maybe I’m wrong and if so, please feel free to explain what I’m missing. But right now, it just seems like unwarranted fear. Like back in 2001 when people talked about deporting all Muslims.
January 20th, 2023 at 8:27 am
31 The term “conspiracy theory” has been around for a long time, and the government had nothing to do with its origin. I remember first hearing the term in regard to people who didn’t think Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK.
January 20th, 2023 at 8:50 am
30 That was interesting. I had thought there was a generator somewhere on the gas engine to charge the battery under some circumstances, but I’m now thinking that all charging is through-the-road. It sounds like E-Ray is as fast around a track as the Z-06, but with a much different “feel.”
They talk about it being good in the snow. I doubt if many people will want to drive them in the snow, but a C8 has about 5 inches of ground clearance, more than most earlier Corvettes. The extremely wide tires are not good in snow, though, and most people wouldn’t want to cover the car with corrosive road salt that goes along with snow in the U.S.
January 20th, 2023 at 9:55 am
32 Bingo! Exactly been around since JFK and the Warren report. And absolutely had to do with the government unless you don’t think the CIA is part of the government.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/16/did-the-cia-invent-the-term-conspiracy-theory/
January 20th, 2023 at 10:04 am
34 This would indicate that the term is much older than 1963. Go down to “Origin and Usage.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory
January 20th, 2023 at 10:51 am
35 Either way, and regardless of its origin it became a derogatory term in the 80s-90s to make anyone questioning stuff as being in denial, paranoia, crazy or narcistic.
Yet when it turns out that these alternative theories are correct it’s amazing how quiet the coverage gets.
Could list about a dozen this year but this was about China setting up a plant here in the US.
The only part I’m against is China owning the land. If Ford owns the land, or its leased cool but I dont like the idea of selling US land to Chinese businesses. Defiantly not farm land.
January 20th, 2023 at 10:55 am
Yeah, conspiracy theory has become a derogatory term, and is sometimes not well understood. Maybe the term should be replaced with a better understood term, like BS.
January 20th, 2023 at 11:47 am
37 Yeah BS like 97% effective, 100% safe, Didnt come from China, Russian collusion.. Wow takes a special amount of denial to overlook the lies you believe and call the truth BS.
January 21st, 2023 at 2:56 pm
Yeah, claims of actual collusion were conspiracy theories or BS, whichever term you want to use. There was Russian interference favoring Trump in 2016, though, as documented in the Mueller Report.