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Runtime: 9:33
0:00 Apple Kills EV Program
0:56 Aston Martin Delays EV
1:41 UAW Says Mercedes Workers Want a Union
2:48 EU OEMs Won’t Challenge ICE Ban
4:01 Honda Unveils FCEV CR-V
5:23 Changan Could Buy HiPhi
6:28 Huawei Claims 1 Km/Second EV Charging
7:16 Musk Says Tesla Roadster Will Launch Next Year
7:47 Nissan Jumps into Robotaxi Business
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
APPLE KILLS EV PROGRAM
Apple is pulling the plug on its electric car program. Bloomberg reports that the tech giant told its 2,000 employees working on the vehicle that it’s canceling development of the EV. Many of them will transfer to work on the company’s generative AI projects. Apple first launched its EV program in 2014 and has since invested billions of dollars into it. However, Apple’s executives decided to pull the plug because they were concerned that it wouldn’t provide high enough profit margins and they were uneasy about continuing to invest in a product that may never reach the market. We also think that the slowdown in EV demand along with the EV price war factored into its decision.
ASTON MARTIN DELAYS EV
This doesn’t sound good for Aston Martin. It says it’s delaying its first electric car because it can’t find enough customers who want to buy it. While it’s not giving up on EVs, Aston is going to put more effort into plug-in hybrids instead. It’s not good news for Lucid Motors, either. Aston is going to buy its batteries and electric powertrain from Lucid, which will give it some badly needed cash flow. But obviously that will get put off for now. From a financial standpoint, Aston is losing money, but it’s making progress, and expects to be cash flow positive in the second half of this year. And one way it’s probably going to be cash flow positive is by delaying its first electric car.
UAW SAYS MERCEDES WORKERS WANT A UNION
It was less than a month ago that the UAW claimed it got over 50% of the line workers at Volkswagen’s U.S. plant in Tennessee to sign cards saying they want a union. And now it says it’s reached the same mark at Mercedes’ plant in Alabama. The UAW really started its new efforts to organize the non-union automakers in the U.S. at the beginning of the year and it will either demand that an automaker recognize the UAW once 70% of line workers sign union cards or it will hold a vote with workers, which would be sanctioned by the National Labor Relations Board. The UAW has been able to claim it got a majority of non-union workers to sign union cards in the past, only to see its efforts get shot down when workers voted in secret at the ballot box. But we also can’t ignore the differences with the present situation. The majority of line workers haven’t got the kind of raises they deserve, there’s new, fresh and motivated leadership in the UAW and they’re employing unique organization tactics.
EU OEMs WON’T CHALLENGE ICE BAN
As we reported last week, the Biden Administration is caving to pressure from the auto industry to roll back emission targets in the U.S. that are designed to boost EV sales. But over in Europe, automakers say they won’t challenge the EU’s 2035 ICE ban. Luca de Meo, the CEO of Renault and the head of the ACEA, the lobbying group that represents Europe’s automakers, said the fossil-fuel ban is feasible as long as the right conditions are in place. He said the industry has already invested billions in electrification and it would be a waste to soften the regulations. But the EU has already backed off its targets. It initially wanted a full ICE ban by 2035 but several countries successfully lobbied to allow the sale of ICE vehicles that run on carbon-neutral fuel after that date.
HONDA UNVEILS FCEV CR-V
With Toyota slashing the price of the Mirai in the U.S. by $40,000, bringing the starting price to just $12,000, Honda is picking an interesting time to introduce a fuel cell powered version of the CR-V. Made at the automaker’s U.S. plant in Ohio, it features the fuel cell system Honda and General Motors developed together. Compared to the 2019 Clarity, Honda says it slashed the overall cost of the system by a third. Power also comes from a 174-horsepower electric motor that drives the front wheels, which is fed by a small battery pack. The tanks in the fuel cell CR-V are a little bit smaller than the Toyota Mirai with a capacity of 4.3 kilograms. Overall, the system provides an estimated 270 miles or 434 kilometers of driving range and the nearly 18 kWh battery pack can provide almost 30 miles or 46 kilometers of range on its own. The battery also has its own separate charging port. The model will first go on sale in Japan this summer, followed by the U.S. before the end of the year. Beyond passenger vehicles, Honda plans to expand fuel cells into areas like commercial vehicles, stationary storage systems, construction equipment and even becoming a supplier.
CHANGAN COULD BUY HIPHI
Earlier this week we reported that we might be seeing the first cracks in China’s automotive industry. Neta Auto is delaying bonuses for executives, and HiPhi has to stop production for 6 months, which are clear signs those companies are running out of cash. Now media reports out of China say that Changan might buy HiPhi. The city of Qingdao and the Saudi Arabia sovereign wealth fund reportedly will be part of the deal. Qingdao, which is a coastal city located roughly halfway between Beijing and Shanghai, is where HiPhi has an R&D center. Changan builds cars for Ford and Mazda in China, as well as its own lineup of vehicles. We think this buyout could be the beginning of the great consolidation that auto experts have been predicting in China. There are simply too many car companies with too much manufacturing capacity for them all to survive, and so a flurry of mergers and acquisitions could be on the way.
HUAWEI CLAIMS 1 KM/SECOND EV CHARGING
The Chinese company Huawei is famous in the West because the FCC banned the company from selling any telecommunications in the U.S. And the U.S. convinced a number of its allies to do the same thing. They’re all worried about that equipment being used for spying or shutting down during a political crisis. But Huawei is also a tech powerhouse in the EV sector, and it’s developing chargers that add 1 kilometer of driving range per second. So, a 5-minute charge would add about 186 miles of range. These are liquid-cooled, 600 kilowatt chargers with 600 amps, and while they’re expensive to make, Huawei says they will deliver a lower cost per kilowatt hour.
MUSK SAYS TESLA ROADSTER WILL LAUNCH NEXT YEAR
Elon Musk says Tesla is aiming to come out with the new Roadster next year. Of course, the CEO has made plenty of statements like this in the past only to see the targets come and go, so we’ll have to see what happens this time around. But he says that it radically increased the design goals for the new Roaster, that production design is complete and it will be unveiled at the end of this year. Oh, and Musk also questions whether it can even be called a car?
NISSAN JUMPS INTO ROBOTAXI BUSINESS
Last year, Honda and GM’s autonomous unit, Cruise, announced plans to launch a robotaxi service in Japan in 2026. And now Nissan is going to do the same. Starting in 2027, it plans to start providing Level 4 autonomous services in three or four municipalities, including rural areas and it’s already in talks with a number of locations. Before it launches the service, Nissan will start tests in Japan this year and expand the trials to more areas next year and 2026 with a larger fleet. In addition to Japan, Nissan is also testing autonomous cars in London and other areas of the UK.
We’ve got one of our favorite guests coming on Autoline After Hours tomorrow. Jeff Stout, with Yanfeng, has great insight into future design and where this industry is headed. And we’re also going to have Paul Waatti from AutoPacific, the consultancy. So join John and Gary for the insights, analysis and great conversation when the show gets going at 3PM EST tomorrow.
But that’s a wrap for today’s show. Thanks for tuning in.
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Sean, What is basis of report of Maria price cut of $40,000 (to $12,000)?
https://www.toyota.com/mirai/ still says MSRP starting at $50,190.
And $12,000 makes no sense, raw materials alone should come close to that.
Passing emission regulations with the purpose of eliminating a particular product (ICE) is just another environmental scheme to extract more money from the general public. Forcing EVs one way or another. So you either pay the premium price to be emission compliant or premium price to go electric. Or it has the adverse affect and people just keep their old less efficient gas burners and the auto industry sees a huge drop in sales.
Either way not much can be offered as to how much this actually helps the environment, but we do know it will cost us more money.
Robert Petrach- Honda did it because in Cali they are shutting down a number of hydrogen fill up stations. I think the full story was in yesterdays ALD
Lambo, Thanks, I didn’t connect the $40,000 credit on fuel cell version of Miria (from ALD 2-26-24) with today’s statement and should have.
@Robert – I’m sure there’s a number of similar reports you could search for, but here’s the one we saw on Monday when we first reported about it: https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/toyota-offering-fire-sale-pricing-mirai-fcv
@Kit, yesterday’s program: I read the comments later: thanks for explaining the difference between “make” and “model”.
Investing many billions of dollars over ten years to develop a vehicle and shutting it down with nothing to show for it.? Apple has finally managed to make Detroit automakers look efficient! It’s a good thing Apple has so much money that they can afford to waste a ton of it on projects like this. Even Apple shareholders may have something to say about foolish daydreams like these.
Can’t say I agree with Lambo, paid $5000 less for my Plaid model X in December of 2023 than I did for my September 2018 Model X but with the new one way more power, bigger battery, heat pump, way quicker charge time and the list goes on. BEVs are more like everything electronic better faster cheaper smarter. In saying that history does not repeat itself but it rhymes. Hence just as the electronic industry is littered with the corpses of non competitive companies like Osbourne so too will the automotive sector both ICE and EV especially the Chinese ones.
Wim, YW
Dave, the downside of what you experienced is the extra $10K or so that your 2018 depreciated with the price cuts. If you have kept it, and will keep it for it’s entire life, that doesn’t matter much. Yep, it’s looking like a lot of Chinese car companies will be in trouble, in the same way dozens, or hundreds of US car companies went out of business in the 1920s and 1930s.
EVs should keep getting cheaper, good for me if I’m ever in the market. Still waiting for home charging at my condo.
Apple threw away a lot of money on their EV project, as has Toyota and others with fuel cells. I don’t see fuel cell cars making sense any time soon, if ever. The storage and fueling is much more complex than for gasoline or electricity. Also, nearly all commercially produced hydrogen uses an energy intensive process with natural gas as a source. That could change, but for now, there are better ways to use electricity than electrolyzing water to produce “clean” hydrogen.
Dave you may have paid less for an EV in 23 than you did in 18 but that’s apples to apples. My comment was that we are being forced into super restrictive EPA regulations that will force the automakers to charge more to be compliant or we are forced to buy an EV which is more expensive than a comparable ICE. Either way it cost us (consumers) more and does exactly what for the environment is still unclear.
Just saying if its such a great product don’t regulate the ICE out of existence and don’t subsidize EVs. Let the product win on its own merits. If it’s so great it will sell.
I, like many thought it sounded like a bad idea when Apple originally announced plans for an EV. They might have had a chance going after the AV technology and license it to automakers. To think they could jump into making cars was just a misguided executive of a tech company thinking EVs were just mobile computers. Obviously had no idea what he was getting them into. If they actually had a step up on the competition in any area of building an EV they could still partner with a number of start-ups and get it into production. My guess is they thought they were pretty good in the cell phone battery arena and had no idea the leap to electrified propulsion.
Sad for the 2000 workers that were probably hired for this EV position alone and will now get put into something they may or may not like. But good they axed it before pouring the money required to build a plant and manufacturing equipment.
With Apple’s capitalization of $2.8 trillion, what they spent on cars was insignificant to them, like Musk’s spending on his mile of tunnel. Still, both were silly.
Come on, Lambo, the price of EVs is not why people don’t buy them. Millions of Americans buy $60K pickup trucks and SUVs to do the job of a Toyota Corolla. I haven’t bought an EV as one of my three cars because I don’t have home charging. Many others haven’t bought them because they don’t know much about them, for political reasons, and if they have only one vehicle, because they are compromised when used for long trips.
Actually, we aren’t being “forced” to buy anything. Even if I live and drive to 100, I won’t need to buy another vehicle of any type. Also, I don’t see anyone prevented from buying an F-250 or Escalade. There may be a small incentive to buy an EV, but it really isn’t having much effect. Yeah, maybe the incentives should go away, as should oil company subsidies.
Kit- get real. Forget about the small world around you and realize many people buy trucks because they do much more than a Corolla can. You can justify 50K when you get value for the money and resale that is way better than any car (ICE or EV). We are being forced into a product. Read the transcript again. “Biden Administration is caving to pressure from the auto industry to roll back emission targets in the U.S. that are designed to boost EV sales”. It’s not regulations to improve emissions or the sake of cleaner air. Thats a by-product. Its specifically designed to boost EV sales by making the cost of producing ICEs higher. Make them on a more level playing field costing about the same. Which means yes consumers will spend more over BS regulations that are in place for no other reason than to help EV sales.
I based my comment on an actual study by JD Powers cited in Business Insider not just my feelings or what I think is happening.
Number 1&2 reasons for not buying an EV is cost and lack of charging stations.
https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-divided-electric-cars-jd-power-study-2023-5#:~:text=High%20purchase%20price%20and%20lack%20of%20charging%20stations,lack%20of%20repair%20shops%2C%20reliability%2C%20and%20power%20outages.
Kit- You really seem hung up on people driving trucks. Not sure if you’ve ever owned one but I think the saying is something like, ” You don’t know how many friends you have until you own a truck”. So just for a little insight; Anytime someone buys a huge flat screen TV, Fridge, washer and dryer, basically any large appliance or is moving they call their buddy with the truck. You’re retired and I’m sure you do as little work as possible. (as you should). But little things like cleaning up yard waste and picking up topsoil, gravel or mulch a truck is great to have. With a Tonneau cover I have 48 cubic feet of storage. With a cap I can have 130 cubic feet of storage. I can sit three adults in the back seat comfortably. I can tow 11,000 lbs. or put two motorcycles in the bed. If we get deep snow, I have 4wd and 8″ of ground clearance. If you have a dog you take to the park and gets all muddy you have a bed, they can ride in without getting hair and mud on the interior.
According to a recent study over 5 years a mid-sized car depreciates 43.6% while a mid-sized truck depreciates 21.4%. So, although you may not see on a regular basis what people use their trucks for, they have a lot of advantages over a car or SUV. As I mentioned before try and stick two child car seats in the back of a Corolla, and you sit back there too and see how long you can ride like that. There are not really any full-sized sedans like there used to be width wise and trucks are the Swiss army knife of vehicles. May not need everything but it can do just about everything.
I’ve owned an S-10 and a Dakota, most recently the Dakota, but that was about 25 years ago.
When I buy a fridge every 30 years, or washing machine every 20 years, or dryer every ~40 years, I just have it delivered. I had my 70 inch TV delivered. I brought my 46 inch TV home in the Prius I had at the time.
For yard work and such, I have a 4×8 tilt trailer that I pull behind my mower. I’ve also pulled it with a car to transport motorcycles, lawn tractors, etc. I rarely use it, except in the lawn, and it costs nothing to own, except the ~$40/year registration. Yeah, if I took muddy dogs places, I’d want a truck for that.
According to Automotive News, BYD says they won’t export cars from Mexico to U.S.
Kit- The other post I had put up never got posted but included an article from Business week and included a study done by JD Power. The number 1 & 2 reasons people in the US don’t buy EVs was Cost and lack of access to charging. People can justify 50K for a truck as I said the Swiss Army knife of vehicles. It doesn’t compare to any EV. So, it’s also about the value you get for the money. The EV crowd likes to compare EV prices to average vehicle transactions because the influx of trucks and SUVs has driven that number up. Making them look close to price. But you cant compare a Model 3 to a F-series. Compare it to the Corolla and then you see they still have a significant price hike.
You obviously have extra cash and can afford toys and are able to enjoy your retirement. There are lots of middle class folks that are working hard and struggling to make ends meet. Paying even 3 or 4k more for a vehicle can mean not buying one at all.
I’ve tossed around the idea of downsizing too and looking for something lighter and more fuel effecient and use a trailer like you do. I sold the boat and no longer have the need to tow 7000lbs. So I still might but we want toget a camping trailer and I know about the time I downsize I’ll find one and it will require a full size truck to pull it. So for now I’m holding on. Its a lease so we’ll see what happens in a year.