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Runtime: 11:16
0:00 Donut Lab’s Solid-State Battery: Real Breakthrough or Too Good to Be True?
1:09 New Tariffs Are Hiking Car Prices: Canada And Japan Hit Hardest
2:15 GM Considers Monthly Leasing For $27,000 Home Energy Systems
3:17 UAW Scores Historic Win: VW Workers Ratify First Contract
4:19 Celanese Fast-Tracks Auto Supply Chain with New AI Agent
5:31 Defending the Track: 13 States Push “Right to Race” Legislation
6:06 Toyota Deploys Humanoid Robots at RAV4 Plant in Canada
6:55 Autoline Poll Results
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
DONUT LAB’S SOLID-STATE BATTERY: REAL BREAKTHROUGH OR TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE?
The Finnish battery company called Donut Lab created a sensation at CES last month when it announced it could print solid-state batteries. Some of its claims include 400 watt hours per kilogram, a charging time of 0 to 100% in 5 minutes, 100,000 charging cycles, and all at a lower cost than lithium batteries. Needless to say, a lot of battery experts are highly skeptical. Well Donut just announced its batteries have been tested by the highly reputable Technology Research Centre VTT in Finland. Donut says it’s going to release the test data on Monday morning and company CEO Marko Lehtimäki says once they do that the skeptics will not admit they were wrong, but will shift their argument to say it cannot be done at an industrial scale. And he says he’ll prove them wrong again. So what do you think that lab report is going to show? Tune in Monday, because we’ll have the results right here.
NEW TARIFFS ARE HIKING CAR PRICES: CANADA AND JAPAN HIT HARDEST
While not as bad as initially feared, the new U.S. tariffs imposed last year are increasing new vehicle prices. However, not equally. A new report from CatalystIQ found that price increases differed depending on where the vehicle was assembled. The study gathered new vehicle pricing for millions of vehicles from franchised dealer websites and then sorted that data by country of origin. It found over the last seven months that retail prices rose the fastest on vehicles built in Canada, Japan, Germany and Mexico. Canada was hit the hardest, with average prices increasing 10% or nearly $4,000. For vehicles made in Japan, prices increased $3,300 on average, those from Germany were up about $2,800 and Mexico-made vehicles were up more than $1,500 since October. Meanwhile, vehicles built in South Korea saw average prices decline $120 and for vehicles made in the U.S. prices were up slightly, just under $100.
GM CONSIDERS MONTHLY LEASING FOR $27,000 HOME ENERGY SYSTEMS
GM could apply a tactic that it uses to sell vehicles as a way to also boost sales of its home energy management system. The company says it sold over 246,000 EVs last year with bi-directional charging, but it’s considering adding a monthly lease program for its home energy system as a way to make the tech more accessible to customers. GM sells everything from a Level 2 home charger for your EV, to stationary storage batteries and all the hardware needed to give customers vehicle-to-home capability. Meaning if your power goes out at home, the system can tap into the stationary storage or even the battery in your EV to power your home electronics. But the equipment is not cheap with prices ranging from about $2,000 for the EV charger up to nearly $27,000 for the entire package with the biggest stationary battery available. GM says it will share more details closer to the launch of the lease program.
UAW SCORES HISTORIC WIN: VW WORKERS RATIFY FIRST CONTRACT
The UAW just scored a major victory. Workers at Volkswagen’s plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, overwhelmingly approved the first labor contract between the union and the automaker. The UAW says 96% of workers that voted agreed to ratify the deal. The four-year contract includes a 20% wage increase, a 20% reduction in health care costs, a $6,550 ratification bonus and $2,250 in annual bonuses plus long-term job security provisions. We think this is a huge deal for the UAW, since it’s the first time it has organized a foreign-owned car plant in the South.
CELANESE FAST-TRACKS AUTO SUPPLY CHAIN WITH NEW AI AGENT
Gen AI can be scary, but it can also be amazingly helpful. For example, the giant chemical company Celanese is using an AI agent, that it calls Chemille, to monitor what automotive engineers are searching for on its website. Then, Chemille makes suggestions where to look. Maybe an automotive engineer wants to know what kind of plastic to use for a roof rack, or is looking for an alternative to a competitor’s material. Chemille will direct them to the info they need. Celanese has tens of thousands of SKUs and polymer formulations, which could take a week to wade through. But Chemille does it in minutes. Celanese says it’s shaved off 3 months of manpower time for handling documents just in the last year. Next up, Chemille is being trained to make suggestions on molding issues, complex material choices and answering technical questions. All this can help automakers and suppliers get things done faster. So why did they name it Chemille? Because the company was founded in 1918 by a guy named Camille Dreyfus. We’ve got a link to Chemille in the transcript if you want to try it out.
DEFENDING THE TRACK: 13 STATES PUSH “RIGHT TO RACE” LEGISLATION
Racing fans know this next story all too well. Decades ago a race track gets built out in the boondocks, but over time houses are built up all around it, and then the neighbors start to complain about all the noise. So 13 U.S. states have introduced legislation to protect long‑standing race tracks from nuisance‑based lawsuits. They’re calling it the Right To Race Act. Iowa and North Carolina have already enacted bills to protect these kinds of tracks and there’s pending legislation in 11 other states.
TOYOTA DEPLOYS HUMANOID ROBOTS AT RAV4 PLANT IN CANADA
A humanoid robot we saw about 9 months ago at an automation trade show, called Automate, is being put to work by Toyota. The robot’s name is Digit and was developed by a company out of the U.S., called Agility Robotics. It uses perception systems and AI to adapt to the environment around it and is designed to take on repetitive tasks. At Toyota, Digit will be loading and unloading bins at the automaker’s plant in Canada that makes the RAV4. While it’s only a small number of robots, 7 will be working in the facility, Toyota had confidence expanding after an initial test of 3 robots last year. And as we’ve pointed out, Hyundai has seen a huge boost from all its robot activity this year, pushing the company’s valuation past General Motors.
AUTOLINE POLL RESULTS
Ok, let’s go over the results of our latest poll. We wanted to know what advice would you give to automakers now that the Trump Administration is easing up on MPG requirements and CO2 rules? Around two-thirds of you said that automakers shouldn’t back off reducing emissions and improving MPGs. 16% said companies should take advantage of the changes. And 20% said that automakers should try to balance the two options. Here’s some of what you had to say.
Kit Gerhart said “The anti-environment regime will be gone one day, so the car companies should continue to concentrate on making clean, more efficient vehicles, while letting the gas hogs pay the bills. It probably makes sense to take advantage of the current situation in ways that it’s cheap to do, as with Stella making a few more expensive Hellcat Durangos. That can help pay the bills for other things.”
Mike168168 says “The rest of the world won’t care about the US relaxing standards. Stop improving and get KO’ed when the Chinese cars enter the US market.”
Irvin Wright says “I truly dislike the mountain of regulations that we are forced to live by and believe the government should stay out of our lives as much as possible. That said however, higher MPG and lower emissions is good for everyone, except maybe the oil companies, so the auto manufacturers should stick with the advances made so far and keep their vehicles as clean as possible.”
Knbagnall says “Auto makers compete on fuel efficiency because that’s what consumers want, so isn’t mpg regulations redundant?”
Thanks for all your comments and feedback. And a quick reminder for our YouTube and Patreon members, John and I will be doing another live Q&A on Monday the 23rd at 2PM EST. So, start sending in your questions now.
But that’s it for today’s show, thanks for watching and have a great weekend.
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court struck down President Donald Trump’s far-reaching global tariffs on Friday, handing him a significant loss on an issue crucial to his economic agenda.
The 6-3 decision centers on tariffs imposed under an emergency powers law, including the sweeping “reciprocal” tariffs he levied on nearly every other country.
It remains to be seen how all of this gets sorted out, and what “work arounds” Trump will find. I’d think the collection of some of the tariffs would stop immediately, but it might take years before the illegal tariffs are paid back to the businesses that paid them.
That’s great news, but unfortunately, once the damaging tariffs come off and prices of things start to come down, he will take credit for “helping the economy” instead of admitting that his plan didn’t work.
Looking forward to seeing Donut’s independent report.
I think it’s crazy to move out to, or build a house, not far from her a race track or any other type of industry, and then complain about noise! I get They’re building there, because it already has some type of infrastructure, but it was their first so how dare they complain about noise?
Regarding the survey results, I my response was that OEMs to take a balanced approach. Even though years from now, there may be leaders around the world to take a different approach than what we’re experiencing now, it’s just as easy that after them could come along those who are not as forgiving. Having a balance reproach, keeps them from getting caught up in the political back-and-forth. I think having the flexibility to pursue whatever the customers want, along with whatever political agenda is being pushed at the time, they will save themselves money and resources, and they’d have the flexibility to adjust their products to what both the consumers, the industry and lawmakers interests at any given time.
That was pretty fast by Donut Lab I’ll be waiting with baited breath for Monday’s Autoline Daily for the results. It will be an evolving release of proof but when we don’t believe a word E*** M*** says about BEV tech then we won’t believe these guys either. Just of bunch of sales guys?? Anyway we will see a fast changing transportation industry as thousands Fight to stay alive another day. Stay tuned.
The Indianapolis Motor Speedway was pretty much “in the country” when built in 1909, but is now has some residential areas nearby, but about half of the surrounding area is industrial and golf course. I don’t know if there are many noise complaints there.
A track where I’ve been aware of noise complaints is the Corvette Museum track in Bowling Green, Kentucky, which was built fairly close to existing residential areas.
I found the Donut Labs story -somewhat- convincing from the get go. I retained a healthy “show me the beef” attitude, but everything about their body language seemed sincere. They were totally laid back start to finish. That said, I guess Ted Bundy had great body language.
So take a wild leap and assume the Donut Labs battery story is real. Now take an even bigger leap and assume they can scale to a meaningful factor in a reasonable time period. This is gonna throw even more billions in OEM and supplier battery investment into “stranded asset” category. Again, if it’s real. That’s the real story. Not the battery. The effect of the battery on the auto industry.
We had a drag strip built in the mid 60’s that the city needed for a mall. The mall got built and after a number of years of no racing, we ended up with a sports car circuit,drift track,motor cycle dirt course,and a drag strip.
I may be wrong and ask my wife and she will tell you that it is by no means the first time, but it is my understanding that home energy systems, where energy is stored in a battery storage unit, do not work?! That the problem is not the system, but with the longevity of the batteries! For their expense, the batteries are currently only good for a couple of years (like that of a battery of a laptop computer), so with GMs system costing up to $27K, would it be worth the investment? I would imagine that the batteries that appear to have such a short shelf life are not the one’s made using the EV grade batteries that GM and Ford are/will be making at their plants the battery plants that are building. As I understand, EV batteries are required to last 8 to 10 years, so a $27K investment in that system might make sense to some. Personally, I do not know authoritatively the longevity of those types of power storage systems in general, or if GM would be using the EV batteries to support their system?!
Most EV battery warranties are 8 years, 100K miles. California requires 10 year, 150K miles. The warranties are that the battery will maintain a certain percentage of original capacity, like 70 or 80%.
The thing I think of regarding long term EV battery life is a 32 year old minivan I recently sold. It was very low mileage, under 100K, and had almost no repair expense over that time. I suspect the chance of an EV battery lasting 32 years is about zero, even with low miles. I could be wrong, but unless I live to 100, I won’t be around long enough to see real data about it.
I am familiar with the 1-55 Speedway (now the I-55 Federated Auto Parts Speedway) just south of St Louis. It is located between the highway (55) and the Mississippi river, and back in the 1900s (around the late ’80s) I used to spend the night at a friend’s house a few miles away. Sometimes, on the weekends, you could hear the racecars, but everyone knew what it was and when it would be loud, and other than those times (once or twice a week certain seasons) it was quiet. I noticed apartments and a few houses are getting closer and closer, and wondered if they knew about the track when they moved in, and what kind of flack they may be getting, but they are still there and doing well. I will have to look and see if Missouri is one of the 13 states, but its good to hear there are states protecting the racing history. https://www.federatedautopartsraceway.com/
I just looked, and Missouri is not one of the 13, neither is Georgia where I currently live.
Kit,
You already can see the evidence.
Firstly with the Baker electric built from 1899 to 1914. The motors on those still run, not amazingly, but they still run. The motors are easily repaired though. The original batteries are nowhere near operational despite most Baker electrics sold today being extremely low mileage. But that is old lead acid battery tech with nothing in terms of battery management. The good news there is that those old lead acid batteries are very cheap to replace with modern lead acid batteries. $2000 and you are back on the road in your Baker Electric. Lets fast forward a bit to more modern tech though.
The GM EV1 from 1996 to 1999 used better battery formulations than the old Baker and had proper battery and charging controls. There are still a few of these EV1s in existence. None of them can go anywhere more than a couple hundred feet. The one in the peterson museum was driven around the corner at 15MPH and that is considered amazing performance. All the surviving EV1s are extreme low mileage vehicles that GM had donated to schools for research purposes as those vehicles were not returned to GM. Yet they all need a battery despite their extremely low mileage(500 miles in 1 case). There are no battery replacements available for the EV1 so they are all museum art and not really a usable vehicle.
That is still older tech so lets fast forward a bit more to the original Tesla Roadster from 2008 to 2012. Much more popular and even more modern battery formulation being lithium ion. Roadsters are still around and worth a lot of money as the first Tesla vehicles produced. They are all low mileage because they were based on the Lotus Elise which is not a daily usable vehicle. They found a shipping container full of zero mile Tesla Roadsters a couple of years ago and every single one had a bad battery despite being driven nowhere. Every roadster used or unused needs a battery. Luckily for those owners replacement and rebuilt batteries are indeed available. The cost is around 30-40K but an original Tesla roadster that is properly functional can sell in the 90K range. So maybe a battery replacement for another 10-15 years of use is worth the expense. Or maybe you just take the battery money and buy a model 3. At least there are options on how you want to spend your 40K.
Lets fast forward a tiny bit more to the original Tesla Model S. A 2012 Tesla Model S is getting to the age where I see them regularly having battery degradation issues. Sellers dump them quickly and for cheap when they start getting battery reductions. The reason, the degradation does not happen slowly. It happens exponentially and they all know that once they see the range dropping, within a year it will be dead. Buying a 2012 Tesla Model S is a mine field. If it was supercharged regularly, which most were due to free supercharging for life…then the battery will degrade rapidly. I see them regularly with 40-70K miles with battery issues and owners trying to dump them. The 2012 Model S is at that tipping point of battery age where you might get a good one that will last 3 or 4 more years, or you will get a bad one.
We can look at the 2011 Nissan Leaf as well. There are zero 2011 Nissan Leafs that do not need a battery. They all need a battery. Every single one of them whether it is high mileage or not. The average range on a 2011 Nissan Leaf in need of a battery is around 20/30 miles. If you use it as a golf cart, then it is a great vehicle. Taking it to the store is out of the question for a 2011 Nissan Leaf. You can get a battery for a 2011 nissan leaf though. They are anywhere from $5K rebuilt to $10K new. Once replaced, you will have a 2011 Nissan Leaf worth $5K on a good day. So most get scrapped as the battery cost does not justify anyone repairing it.
At any rate, you have already seen what happens in vehicle batteries versus time. Time kills every single battery. Mileage is only relevant on EVs as it forces you to charge it more often and recharge cycles degrade battery life in addition to time. If you are a high mileage user and can put up with the long charge times, an Electric is a great choice. You can put on tons miles and not have too much trouble within the first 10-15 years depending on where you live and how you care for the battery. After that, you are looking at replacing the battery if you want to continue or selling the car for scrap value. There will not be a fully functional to its original range spec 30 year old EV on its original battery. Your history with the Dodge Caravan will never be a viable scenario for an EV.
Batteries last the longest if kept between ~20-80% state of charge, and are not fast charged. Yeah, those Models S with free charging for life are not going to be doing very well now. From what I’ve heard over a few years, if lithium batteries are left unused, it is best to store them at ~65% state of charge.
Yeah, batteries will need to improve a lot for an EV to replicate my experience with my Caravan.