AD #2898 – CARB Finalizes Fuel Economy Agreement; How GM Can Get More EV Credits; Bronco First Ride Impressions

August 18th, 2020 at 11:55am

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Listen to “AD #2898 – CARB Finalizes Fuel Economy Agreement; How GM Can Get More EV Credits; Bronco First Ride Impressions” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 11:43

0:07 CARB & Automakers Finalize Fuel Economy Agreement
1:12 Canoo Jumps on Reverse Merger Bandwagon
1:49 How Polestar Will Launch Its Lineup
3:38 How GM Can Get More EV Credits
4:43 Future Model Intel
5:38 Baojun Launches New Sedan & Wagon
6:52 Ford Bronco First Ride Impressions
9:35 Ram Reveals Its Raptor Killer

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38 Comments to “AD #2898 – CARB Finalizes Fuel Economy Agreement; How GM Can Get More EV Credits; Bronco First Ride Impressions”

  1. bradley cross Says:

    The EV credits landscape in the US could change significantly if Biden becomes president. They will change if the Ds also get control of the Senate. i.e. GM should wait a couple of months to see the election results.

    The TRX is the new king of the hill and folks with money will gladly pay those prices.

  2. Norm T Says:

    I qualified for the last of GM credits of $1,875 on March 27th when we purchased an untitled 2018 Cadillac CT6 plug-in. Quite a dream ride at 4,000 miles now and almost off battery powered.

  3. ChuckGrenci Says:

    On TFL Trucks, Andre maxed out the build of a TRX (with the launch edition) and it was just shy of $100k; pretty steep. Wonder if dealers will even gouge that price as the launch edition is a limited number. The base is 70k and the launch edition takes it to 92k (adding other things brings it to the just sub 100k number). Also the 70k base does not include delivery (that’s another $1695). It looks like the TRX is going the route of the Gladiator introduction.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I suspect most of the TRX trucks sold will be customer orders, like the expensive Challenger variants. I doubt if dealers will be able to get above MSRP, as expensive as they are already.

  5. Tony Gray Says:

    Asking for more regulation is not to benefit yourself but to injure your competitors. Just make the best product you can and let the market sort things out. If you make a better mousetrap…

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    The base Raptor may be $57k on paper good luck finding one. I have looked and the cheapest new one I could find was 75+ with most over 80.
    I’m betting the Ram will be less money equally equipped after the first year introductions.

    As I said a week or two ago, it would make sense for GM to spin off their EVs I hope they still don’t try and offer a sprinkling of EV models throughout the other GM divisions. Do it right GM and just stick with what you know and continue to do it the best you can. EVs along with AV is still a small market and should be kept separate for now.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    5 That’s exactly what I suspected is going on here too, The automakers willing to sign up for tighter regulations have figured out how to meet them. So forcing the issue hurts their competition. Raise the bar to burden your foes with more R&D costs. They are certainly not doing it out of moral or ethical obligations.

  8. wmb Says:

    The thing I don’t get with the Polstar is where it and Lotus fits in the Geeky kingdom with Volvo. Lotus was primed to be the English Porsche, but now it’s going all electric. But so is Polstar and it seems that from a price, tech and sport/luxury car point, they will be pursuing the same BEV customer. Adding to this is the fact that, outside of Lotus sport cars, much of their offerings will be off the backs of Volvo platformers. I’m sure that what each brand sells will look different (with Polstars probably looking closer to Volvos then that from Lotus), but to the same costumers at the same price? Smh!

    FCA has had a lot of heart burn ever since Ford F-150 Raptor. With Jeep being their off road brand, but not having a full size Jeep truck to compete with them must have been a slap in the face. When FCA announced they were making the full size Wagoneer from the bones of the Ram 1500, I know that it would be a matter of time before they would adding some of that Jeep hardware to the Ram to go head-to-head with the Raptor! One way or another, there is a new chariot to pound the dirt and sand of the beach and dessert. Dust bunnies beware, for you have been warned!

    Ball’s in your court Chevy/GMC!

  9. Bob Wilson Says:

    The Federal Tax Credit needs to end. Reset it to one year for the $7,500 followed by the divide by two for each quarter. Then have it end the second year. Making an EV has become a commodity with prices dropping. No need to subsidize buying catalog parts and rolling out another mediocre EV. Let the market sort them out.

  10. Barry T Says:

    The GM EV spinoff idea sounds like another large corporation using a technicality to take another run at my tax money.

    5 Correct! It’s a play to limit competition and also ultimately limit the cars and models that will be available to me to buy. There is no current law against them offering a fleet getting 50 miles per gallon or 60 or whatever they want – why else do they want/need regulations?

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Now, it’s time for someone to again make a small pickup to sell in the U.S. It was rather refreshing to see an old, small 2 door regular cab Toyota pickup a couple days ago. There aren’t many of those still around, at least not in road salt country.

  12. Larry D. Says:

    the corrupt and incompetent congress rewards the LOSER EVs with the 7500 tax credit and REFUSES it to the WINNERS. What an IDIOTIC waste of taxpayer’s money.

    As for GM rearranging the chairs of its TITANIC BEVs, will not make a bit of a difference if it spins the worthless loser off or not.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    11 one reason the late (in the US) Hond FIT failed, despite its allegedly far smarter design and cuter face than other subcompacts [people never wanted, is that, RIDICULOUSLY, it got WORSE MPG than the much longer and far more elegant CIVIC. Draw the parallel to any other smaller vehicles that are not or no longer offered in the US market (which is DIFFERENT, I say for the nth time, than the markets overseas, with their tiny narrow roads and constant parallel parking in downtown areas.

  14. Dave Says:

    Sean, can you confirm if the Orange Bronco you showed is a 2.3T/7 manual? I know the black one was from another review. Thanks!

  15. John McElroy Says:

    #11. Kit, coming soon: a small pickup from Ford. Unit-body, FWD, priced around $20,000. I think it will be out end of 2021. Other reports say it will be named Maverick.

  16. ChuckGrenci Says:

    15, John, cloned from the Bronco Sport, right? I think it may earn some sales and maybe spur others to get back in to a segment that some want.

  17. merv Says:

    not an off road guy myself,but really like the bronco,and your coverage was excellent. That was a very nicely set up course also.

  18. Kevin A Says:

    Sean, I like your EV spin off logic, but why think so small? If a one model EV spin off is worth 6 billion when spun off, why not spin off each MODEL as a separate company? You might be able to spin off 5 or 6 companies before people wise up. (E-Corvette, E-Caddy, GM-E pickups, chEVrolet) Maybe this could be a way to get some value out of the unused old nameplates (pontiAC, Olds, Saturn, Holden, Oakland etc)

  19. cwolf Says:

    EV tax credits are doing what they were intended to do and all manufacturers received the same deal, so why cut the legs off those who have yet put their product to production?

  20. Kevin A Says:

    … also, if GM wanted to unload a few factories they know they won’t need in the future, they could ‘sell’ them to the spin-offs, instantly making the spin-offs more credible as ‘real’ companies

  21. cwolf Says:

    I read somewhere that the Bolt ranked No.1 in affordable EVs. Now if GM spins off into a separate EV division, there is no reason why that company shouldn’t qualify for the same tax credits to stimulate its brand… as long as it is manufactured here.

  22. cwolf Says:

    I don’t know what compels Larry to tell us how well he is doing in the stock market, but EVERY marketer believes stocks will continue to rise but at a more moderate pace after the election. It doesn’t matter which side wins. Both will continue to stimulate the economy, but from different directions. The drive towards EVs will really depend upon who takes the senate.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15. Thanks, John. The pictures I’m seeing are a “smaller Ridgeline,” 4 doors, and an extra short bed, rather than a regular cab small truck. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what actually shows up.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13. Actually, the most common version of Fit gets slightly better city mpg than Civic, and these cars are mainly used in the city.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42394&id=41748&id=42153

    Of course, Americans aren’t buying Civics instead of Fits. They are buying little CUVs, like that Kia we saw here a few days ago, which are thirstier than either Fit or Civic.

  25. Ed Says:

    The small Kia seltos is perfect for 80 year olds , I work with a geriatric population, they need a short wheelbase vehicle for parking, with ease in ingress/egress -higher seating position and headroom. An efficient power plant. And four doors to carry people and items with ease, groceries and oxygen / walkers. They drive around town, or is good enough for short trips , most of them are now leery of younger people without a mask on. So they don’t travel far. Some don’t care about anything and just go. It was Interesting to read how someone thought they were “illiterate “ for getting a vehicle like that . From what I know and experience with them , they know exactly what they want, and how it fits their life. Not everyone is a sports car enthusiast with 100k to plunk down on a vehicle that there may not be local service for. Imagine being in a new electric car and you don’t know the true range, like a model 3 on a frozen feb day, and you wear depends. … People know their own situation and the potential pitfalls of new technology, what is safe and reliable comes more into play for them.

  26. Ed Says:

    The small Kia seltos is perfect for 80 year olds , I work with a geriatric population, they need a short wheelbase vehicle for parking, with ease in ingress/egress -higher seating position and headroom. An efficient power plant. And four doors to carry people and items with ease, groceries and oxygen / walkers. They drive around town, or is good enough for short trips , most of them are now leery of younger people without a mask on. So they don’t travel far. Some don’t care about anything and just go. It was Interesting to read how someone thought they were “illiterate “ for getting a vehicle like that . From what I know and experience with them , they know exactly what they want, and how it fits their life. Not everyone is a sports car enthusiast with 100k to plunk down on a vehicle that there may not be local service for. Imagine being in a new electric car and you don’t know the true range, like a model 3 on a frozen feb day, and you wear depends. … People know their own situation and the potential pitfalls of new technology, what is safe and reliable comes more into play for them.

  27. cwolf Says:

    I don’t see many Kias of any kind around here, yet a new dealership sprang up a couple years ago. Honda is more abundant. Half are sedans. When I hit the wineries around the Cleveland suburbs it seems like all foreign makes are Honda’s.

  28. cwolf Says:

    What’s the difference between a Kia and a Hyundai? I have never been in either.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25. The 80-some year old Seltos owner I know likes the vehicle, for her usual around town trips. As recently as a year ago, she and her somewhat younger friend took a ~2000 mile highway trip. Something else would be better for that, but I’m sure they won’t do any trips like that as long as covid is still around, if ever.

    27. I see a lot of Kias and Hyundais in the “space coast” area in Florida, but not many in Kokomo, Indiana. The only foreign name plate cars sold in Kokomo are Toyota and Honda.

    28. A lot of Kias and Hyundais are near-twins, like Sonata/Optima, and Sportage/Tucson, and others. Some Kias, like Soul, don’t have a Hyundai direct counterpart. Nearly all mechanical parts are shared between the brands.

  30. cwolf Says:

    The smallest car I ever purchased was a Mazda 3. I used it as a go to work car for about 30K miles before giving it to my son as a graduation gift. It was a fun car, kinda spunky, got good mileage and problem free. I’m not certain I like the newer models for it has gotten larger and doesn’t look as sporty. It was a good experience for me, but the seats became a bit hard after an 86 mile drive to work.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30. I’ve had a number of small cars, a VW Beetle, Chevy Sprint, VW Golf Cabriolet, Geo Spectrum, and most recently, the Mini. The Mini has made two round trips between Florida and Indiana, and other than being a little noisy, is comfortable to me for a trip like that. Actually, the same applies with the Corvette. The seats are comfortable for me, even for 11-12 hour days, but the car is kind of noisy. I guess ear plugs would fix that. I always use ear plugs when riding motorcycles, even though my bikes have quiet, stock exhaust, but just the wind and mechanical noise is substantial. I’ve never tried using ear plugs in a car, to see if I’d like it. It would be easy to accidentally go way too fast in a car like the Corvette with ear plugs.

  32. Larry D. Says:

    25 Hyundai and KIa already had vehicles that would satisfy the above needs of 80 year olds and to an even bigger extent than the Seltos, AND at a much lower cost to buy and own. For example the KIa Soul, and it has much smaller footprint than the Seltos as well, and better MPG. I sure would NOT recommend this joyless, cheap, junky vehicle, which I have been sentenced to drive for 200+ miles once (renting and trying to minimize my costs), to ANYONE, young or old. Life is too short to waste driving such truly crappy vehicles.

  33. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    28) The difference is about the same as Chevy Truck is to GMC. Hyundai is the GMC of the DUO. Does that make Hyundai Professional Grade? LOL

  34. Lambo2015 Says:

    27 The lack of Kia’s I believe that’s our proximity to the motor city, and for a good chunk of the mid-west where the unions were strong and buying American means something still. Many people are directly affected by the auto industry and can make the connection on how buying foreign cars affects them. Honda is understandable especially in Cleveland not that far from the Marysville Honda plant.
    When I lived in L.A. for a year I was shocked at the huge difference in vehicles. Trucks are only for companies like landscaping and construction. I was so used to seeing about 80% domestic cars on the road to about the opposite in California where its maybe 20% if that.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 Kia and Hyundai twins are much more different than Chevy and GMC trucks, at least some of them, like Optima and Sonata. The styling is different, inside and out, with mostly different body panels. The Kia is slight more expensive.

    https://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2019-hyundai-sonata-vs-2019-kia-optima-which-better-281474979902957

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 That’s certainly the case where I am now, where FCA is the biggest employer, and there are still some GM and Delphi jobs. Also, the nearest Kia dealer is about 40 miles away. There are a lot of Kias in my area 8n Florida, espially Soul, a kind of cute, well priced, and practical around town vehicle.

  37. Stephen Says:

    Honda has been selling the most popular car in America (the Accord) for decades so naturally buying a Honda is not unusual and most of the Japanese built car plants in the south to avoid the regular trade deficit wars that hurt their exports to the US.
    Euro car buyers of small cars don’t do the same massive mileages on highways with massive Semi trucks slamming by. trucks sell less in CA as fuel (like in Europe) is more expensive so they’re used for the original reason they were built-commercial use.
    I can understand GMs EV trick but in any compromise on a new deal between Dem&Rep in DC, changing the tax credit to “cut subsidies” and raise the fed fuel tax to fund road repairs in a recession are likely to upset any smart spin-off. Any Green new deal is likely to cut subsidies both for EVs and oil production.

  38. Stephen Says:

    If I was Ford, I’d offer the Bronco as a cheap Land Rover Defender in Europe/Rest of the world. Its got the off-road chops, looks rugged and would be way cheaper to buy even if it was the premium models on offer. Even your middle east buyer can’t afford the usual pimped out Range Rover and yet needs something to cope with sand and track. Small AWD still sells. Wonder if Ford did any testing to see if it would pass Euro safety tests. Near-nobody buys US pickups outside North America and Jeep faces lots of competition for premium AWD SUVs in Europe