AD #3034 – Jeep Wagoneer Revealed; Dongfeng Adopts Multi-Supplier AV System; Tesla Has the Lowest Battery Costs

March 11th, 2021 at 11:51am

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Listen to “AD #3034 – Jeep Wagoneer Revealed; Dongfeng Adopts Multi-Supplier AV System; Tesla Has the Lowest Battery Costs” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 12:10

0:07 Canoo Shows Off EV Pickup Concept
1:27 Jeep Reveals New Wagoneer & Grand Wagoneer
3:42 Incentives Drive Down Toyota Mirai Price
5:42 Dongfeng Adopts Multi-Supplier L2 System
6:40 Infiniti Details New QX60 AWD System
8:33 Tesla Has the Lowest Battery Costs
9:33 What’s With All the Logo Changes?
10:17 The Story Behind Our Regular Screwdriver Question

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41 Comments to “AD #3034 – Jeep Wagoneer Revealed; Dongfeng Adopts Multi-Supplier AV System; Tesla Has the Lowest Battery Costs”

  1. ChuckGrenci Says:

    What happened to the 100 dollars per kilowatt hour battery; I thought even though it wasn’t there yet, it was close. It doesn’t look like it’s very close according to today’s reporting.

  2. Norm T Says:

    Toyota needs ZEV credits so it gives away car. If you follow Edmund’s longterm Clarity Hydrogen longterm there was plenty of down time for fueling while waiting in line and changing tanks or refueling them. The repair cost is out of car world expensive!

  3. paulstewart Says:

    Wow, Sean that weight caught us both by surprise ! 6400lbs for the top J.W. We both thought Max. would be 5100lbs. Stay warm Michigan ! Go Gordie Howe Bridge !

  4. Barry Moore Says:

    Have you guys not heard of Atlis Trucks. they are the only 3/4 and 1 ton electric trucks I have heard off. The 1 ton has a 35000 towing rating.
    Perfect for horse trailers and work trucks.

  5. wmb Says:

    A true full size SUV from the Chrysler side of FCA…I mean Stellantis (eye rolls), is long over do and the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer look really impressive. It looks like Jeep really put some work in to making this vehicle stand out! That eye popping price on the loaded GW, through, has me scratching my head. Maybe, maaaaybe if it had a Chrysler badge and was going head to head with Lincoln or Cadillac, but a Jeep? As great as Jeeps are, IMHO, they more premium then true luxury and as great as these two appear, that is Ranger Rover and Ranger Rover Sport kind of money. While I do agree that these two may be the first Jeep vehicles to honestly be compared to and cross shopped with the Land Rover Discovery, but the RR and RR Sport maybe a bit out of their territory. That being said, demand for these two will exceed supply and Jeep/Stellantis will make a lot of money with these to vehicles. The sad this is, how ever, Jeep will sell more of these, then Maserati will sell of their Levante SUV! One last thing, if GM and Ford can do while selling different versions of the full size SUV’s under different brands, why couldn’t Stellantis do the same? To compliment the Wagoneers, couldn’t they also do a Dodge and/or Ram, along with a Chrysler off of this same platform? Talk about a ready made cash cow (said with no intended disrespect to Cows)! Just a thought. When competition is good, the consumer wins!

  6. Dave Says:

    Several people on the news on the internet have challenged those dollar numbers of battery costs of Cairn Energy all are lower and those numbers maybe historic in a fast changing time

  7. JWH Says:

    Sean – Most of Autoline viewers refer to standard screwdriver as Flathead. Perhaps most of the Autoline viewers are older. Fits me. LOL

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That’s a pretty good price for the Marai. Unfortunately, there are only about 20 places in the world where you can fuel it.

  9. B.Kee Says:

    Flathead or Phillips?
    I used to live in Japan and they call it -(minus) or +(plus) which is way easier to remember or figure out, and I like that.
    When you ask for a screw driver, you just say, give me a plus or give me a minus.

  10. Clem Zahrobsky Says:

    with battery powered vehicles you have range anxiety so with self driving vehicles do you have crash anxiety ??

  11. Lambo2015 Says:

    I did find the screwdriver debate to be very much age related. I even went as far as having to google regular screwdriver to prove my point to all the younger folks that swore a Phillip’s was regular. Some said the same thing mentioned in the comments here that regular didn’t tell em anything and they would insist on more clarification

    Google backed me up though, stating flat head was most common and became standard or often referred to as regular even though today Phillips is more common. I just had no idea that over the years it changed.

  12. GM Veteran Says:

    wmb – the main reason FCA doesn’t make sister versions of their vehicles like Ford and GM do is because they would be sold from the same showroom. All FCA dealerships carry all of the FCA brands, with only a very few exceptions. The Tahoe/Yukon twins provide a comparable product for two different retail channels. Not many Chevrolet dealerships also sell GMC. Same with Ford and Lincoln. FCA only has one sales channel.

  13. GM Veteran Says:

    The Canoo pickup is interesting, but I would want to know a lot more about it before making a reservation. Price would be at the top of the list. It is unique styling. I think it looks futuristic, and a little retro in the manner of a Forward Control Jeep or Ford Econoline pickup of many years ago.

  14. Rey Says:

    Toyota so desperate to game the California and Federal E credit system they practically give away the lease and take a loss on their FOOLCELL Mirai.i wonder how many will be leased this year last year was just over 1000 units.
    Teslas Battery CELL cost is going to be around $75 / kWh when the 4680 cells are mass produced ,as divulged during Tesla battery day, that brings the their drivetrain cost to ICE levels,at that price Tesla can deliver cars at almost the price of a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic.

  15. woscar Says:

    The picture of the various screwdriver types had it right. That’s a slot head, not a flat head. Flat head is a type of screw, not the driver, and can be slot, Phillips, Allen, Roberson, Torx, Posi-drive, and on and on. Those describe the type of screwdriver necessary to engage them.
    Can’t wrap my head around $100K SUVs. If they had full stage five autonomy, maybe.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    No one sells car-height wagons in the US, because “no one wants them,” but there must be a huge pent up demand for electric pickup trucks, since there will be about 8 of them in a couple years.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 Maybe the top trim Grand Wagoneer should be called Imperial.

  18. Drew Says:

    The Wagoneers look great, except for the goofy bright DLO trim execution on the Grand version. The GM competitors are barely a year old, yet need updates already. And the Ford/Lincoln entries better have an update soon, lest history will repeat itself (recall how they let their segment-defining entries wilt on the vine with an overly long cycle length and a just a few half-hearted freshening).

    It’ll be interesting to see how Jeep markets the Wagoneers along side the new Grand Cherokee L. I look forward to a road test comparison between these siblings, as well as a comparison to the Yukon/‘Lade, Exped/‘Gator, and others.

    Price? Your COVID stimulus check won’t cover the D&D charge ($2000 per one of the local Detroit newspapers). Yikes!

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 As long as there is no place to fuel them, there will continue to be little market for fuel cell cars.

    EVs have a similar problem, but, obviously, much smaller than with hydrogen cars. I stopped by the soon-to-open Tesla store near me to see if they’d have any public use fast chargers, and they won’t. If they did, I’d be a genuine prospect. They have the 30-40 mile/hour chargers, but just for their own use.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Florida has a proposed bill for a punitive surcharge for EVs, which in 2025, will be equivalent to the state gas tax for 24,456 miles of a 30 mpg car. It would be equal to the gas tax for 16,300 miles in a 20 mpg vehicle, a gas hog by today’s standards.

  21. Drew Says:

    @19 – I suppose Elon is no longer promoting an egalitarian EV future, but is promoting a proprietary Tesla future.

  22. Drew Says:

    @20 – State governments are addicted a drug, called gas tax. I predict we will soon hear how EVs need to be taxed more than ICEs because the heavier EVs are causing quicker degradations of our roads. I recognize road maintenance projects need to be supported, but we are about to embark on a new wave of creative taxation that will more than compensate for the lost gas tax.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If the Florida law passes, as seems likely, a 4000 pound Model 3 driven average miles will pay more Florida tax than a 6000 pound Suburban. At some point, road tax should be charged according to distance driven, with vehicles bracketed by weight, but it will be hard to agree on how to do that.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 You should be required to turn in your mileage each year with your plate renewal and charged a per mile fee. Not only prevent rolling back odometers but seems the fairest way to divvy of the taxes

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Reading odometers would work, and newer cars probably keep track of miles in computers. Cheating would be possible with about any system, but easier with some than others.

  26. Nick Thomas Says:

    Sean,

    When will the traditional automakers challenge these new EV entrants that clearly do not meet consumer expected safety standards?

    If I were an OEM, I’d be quick to point out that vehicle makes from the likes of Bollinger, Canoo, and Aptera are not the competing apples-to-apples on safety…

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 They will need to meet the federal safety standards, but still, where is the market? I know a number of pickup drivers, most of whom would be better off with a van or cat, but I don’t hear any of them saying they want an electric pickup.

  28. Ross Francis Says:

    Hi, speaking of Jeeps, does anyone know why Jeep offers a RHD Wrangler for the US market? Who buys these as they are already available in many RHD markets. https://www.jeep.com/bmo.wrangler.2021.html#/build/exterior/90210/CUJ202110JLUL74A/2TA/APA,PW7,X9,EC1,DFT,DLK,Z1D,SDA,TQL,WF9,A7,UAA,22A

  29. Rich Smith Says:

    I had been thinking that Chrysler needs a high end SUV to compete with the Escalade and Navigator. (At least Dodge has the Durango.). It seems like these new Jeeps fall in that category, but I’m wondering if this has been a big missed opportunity to expand Chrysler’s line.

  30. wmb Says:

    12.) @ GM Veteran: This is true that the FCA side does business out of the same stores, but the GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave are sold out of the same store. The funny thing is, they are both billed as premium vehicles too! One more premium them the other obviously, yet they don’t over lap or directly compete with the other. The same is true with the Grand Cherokee and the Durango, along with the Land Rover Discovery Sport and the Ranger Rover Evoque! IMHO, FCA and now Stellantis, is leaving a lot of money on the table, by not selling all weather, AWD versions of their car based Jeep CUV/Crossovers, under at least the badges of Dodge and/or Ram and Chrysler. I don’t mean badge engineering, but much like JLR has done with their E-Pace/Discovery Sport/Evoque and their F-Pace/Valor. While the Land and Range Rovers each have equal, but distinct off road credentials, their Jaguar platform mates do the road biased, all weather job as good as, if not better then most! Why couldn’t Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler do the same? We all know that most CUV/SUV/Crossovers never venture off road and that most Jeep vehicles do not carry serious hardware to go rock climbing or play in the mud and sand. Yet they, like most buyers make their purchase to project a certain image. So a person who wants to project an outdoorsy image like that associated with a Jeep, many not care for the hot rod look and sound of a Dodge, or the sharper edges more accustom to a Chrysler. But that doesn’t mean that they can’t build a Dodge or Chrysler CUV from the bones of Jeep’s Crossovers. Outside of the Grand Cherokee and the Wagoneers, NONE of Jeep’s CUV’s have anything that resemble high out put horsepower or true luxury! What would be wrong with taking the architectures of the Renegade, Campass and Cherokee, redesigning them and giving them either more power or max luxury, to do duty as either a Dodge or Chrysler? This way, even in the same showroom, they will still appeal to a different buyer and not directly compete with each other. The 300 and Charger share showroom space, yet go after different buyers! I mean BMW sells coupe versions of the X1, X3, X5 and soon the X7, in the same showroom and buyers don’t seem to care they are the same vehicle and will pay a premium for the coupes too. There would be very little new engineering work needed for the Dodge and Chrysler versions. The only real cost would be the money needed to differentiate the styling of the vehicles. Just a thought.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 Durango has a somewhat different market from GC, being stretched, and a with different styling. There is now a GC L, about the same stretch as the Durango, but for more money. I don’t know how it is selling.

    Checking sales numbers for E-Pace and F-Pace, I wonder if making them makes sense, unless sales are better in the rest of the world than in the US. The year 2000 US sales were about 10,000 for F-Pace and 3700 for E-Pace.

    Do the “coupe” versions of any of these Euro brand CUVs sell in any numbers? I don’t see many of them. If they’d lower them and sell them RWD, they be more appealing to me. Why, why do most of them have mandatory 4wd, at least in the US market, when even the boxy versions are available with rwd? I’m talking about X3 and GLC available with rwd, while X4 and GLC “coupe” have mandatory 4wd. Maybe the bigger ones are that way too.

  32. wmb Says:

    29. The E and F-Pace may not sale in the big numbers, as compared to their Land and Ranger Rover counterparts. Yet, they are the best selling vehicles in the Jaguar line up! They add to JLR’s economy of scale and do not directly compete with the more profitable vehicles and Land Rover and provide more stylish alternatives to the same platforms. The same is true with the four door coupes at BMW, Mercedes and Audi, with only a little investment and they charge more for them! This is even though they sit next to a more practical version of the same vehicle, in the same showroom. Here is my point, if Jeep is going to be the volume brand on the Chrysler side of Stellandtis, i don’t see how Dodge/Ram/Chrysler couldn’t mimic the type of sales that Jaguar has done by using Land Rover’s platforms. Especially if the styling differences are more then just cosmetic. Lower the Dodge’s suspensions and give them real firepower under the hood and better handling. Make the Chrysler’s real lookers and drown them in luxury appointments. Follow the recipe that has worked for the 300 and Charger! Even if they only add another 50-75K to each model line that Jeep currently offers (which I doubt, it would probably by much, much more), it would be providing needed product the brands that have been starved of investment years. While I do not think that the Grand Cherokee and the new L, should be shared with their sister brands (a different FWD/AWD product should be in that space), I can’t see where Dodge/Ram and Chrysler versions of the Wagoneers would not be profitable for Stellantis!

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    To older people like me, who remember Chrysler as a near-luxury brand, a Chrysler version of the Wagoneer would be a perfect fit, better than Jeep. My first car was a 1957 Chrysler, which competed with Buick and Oldsmobile, back when those brands were semi-prestigious to own.

  34. Lambo2015 Says:

    I’m just surprised that there is that much demand for 80k+ SUVs. I mean I get that anyone that has more than 2 kids, you’re almost required to buy something with a third row but these prices are crazy, especially for young families. Car sales keep falling and I expect at some point the only cars left will be sportscars. Even the luxury and limos are transitioning over to SUVs. As these prices keep climbing I guess it will make the EVs closer in price.

  35. Sean Wagner Says:

    That Grand Wagoneer has a nice interior indeed. More attractive (to me) than its rather stodgy exterior, but at least it represents a coherent style.

    31 I wonder if a Chrysler version might try for a fresher, more modern look? Range Rover is showing how it can be done. Incidentally, my father still raves about the Imperial’s trunk.

    32 At these prices, and aside from infrastructure, I think it’s only cell supply limiting the introduction of “outsize” EVs (seeing a big US car in a European setting can be amusing).

    While Tesla’s somewhat odd Model X isn’t exactly flying off the line, I expect EVs to become much more popular in the high-price and high-weight domain.

    1 Chuck – Regarding purported battery costs, I’d really like a closer look at that report. Is it US-centric? Making no mention of VW and the main cell suppliers seems off, just like predictions for 2030.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 My ’57 Chrysler was a Saratoga, and it had a big trunk, but I suspect an Imperial trunk would have been even bigger. It addition to the back seat, some extra length of the Imperial probably went into the trunk.

    32 There is a new, perfect vehicle for people with more than two kids, the 2021 Toyota Sienna. It is a hybrid, getting 36 mpg overall in both EPA ratings and CR’s overall result. The Sienna has more room than a Ford Explorer that uses almost twice as much gas, and is even available with 4wd, for those who want it.

    The thing that could slow down the SUV/pickup truck craze, would be if people started caring about fuel efficiency. Gas prices are now near 2018-2019 levels, which could change vehicle buying patterns, at least a little.

    https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price

    Click 3Y and 5Y above the chart to see more.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 They seem to be “building inventory” for a soon-to-open Tesla store near me, and there are several Model Xs sitting in the lot, probably as many as 3s and Ss. There are no Ys. I suspect the Ys are sold as soon as they are built, like C8 Corvettes.

  38. wmb Says:

    To be transparent, I was pulling the 50-70K numbers out of the air, but, IMHO, their is an opportunity that Stellantis can take advantage of. If the SRT, REDEYE and H’Cat trims at Dodge has taught us anything, horsepower selling, even if the platform it’s strapped to is over 20 years old! What other sub compact and compact CUV/Crossovers are there on the market today, that market to horsepower, especially like that of the Charger?! While I could never see a Renegade with the R/T or SRT glued to the back, I might be interested in a Dodge of that class and size! The Ford Puma ST in Europe is considered the new hot hatch of our day across the pond. Again, one might not be interested in a lux’d up Compass, but a stylish Chrysler CUV, maybe? As long as they stay in their lane and not try to price it to compete with an Aura, X1 or a GLA, I think they could do well. The new Wagoneers show what the Chrysler side of Stellantis can do with luxury if they put their minds to it. Would they drop that type of bling in a version of the Compass, for a Chrysler product? I don’t think so, but if they did, for about the price of an Equinox (the Equinox is a bit more pricey then an Escape, CX-5, the current Tuscan, Sportsmen, etc.)? I think they may have something special.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    There is an SRT Hellcat Durango, MSRP of ~$81K. I don’t know how many they sell, but they must sell enough to make it worthwhile to build it, even if the volume is low.

    I’d like to see Chrysler revived as a near luxury brand. The 300 fits there, but it is getting really old. A properly done version of the next generation Durango could make a good Chrysler, if there is a next generation.

  40. DanaPointJohn Says:

    8. Wrong, but keep up the positive comments about alternative fuel vehicles.

  41. Andrew G Bellis Says:

    One more thing about screw drivers. I believe that the “flat” screw driver was invented first or so it would seem to me looking at older vehicles and equipment. Therefore, i would say that the “regular or standard screw driver” should go with the first or original design for a screw driver. Can anyone confirm that the flat screw driver was invented first?