AD #3462 – Battery Prices Up for 1st Time in 10 Years, 1/3 of Ford Dealers Not Investing in EVs; Mercedes-AMG S-Class

December 6th, 2022 at 12:04pm

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Runtime: 10:41

0:00 Battery Prices Up for 1st Time in Over 10 Years
1:24 1/3 of Ford Dealers Not Investing in EVs
2:24 Tesla Denies Shanghai Slowdown
3:49 Hydrogen Extraction Breakthrough Could Benefit Fuel Cells
5:19 Mercedes Reveals Most Powerful S-Class Ever
6:26 OEMs Can’t Go Carbon Neutral w/ HEVs & PHEVs
7:54 Navistar and TuSimple Part Ways
8:26 DHL Taps BrightDrop for EV Delivery
9:13 Integra Type S Gets Same Setup as Civic Type R
9:42 Toyota Developing EV Manual Transmission

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22 Comments to “AD #3462 – Battery Prices Up for 1st Time in 10 Years, 1/3 of Ford Dealers Not Investing in EVs; Mercedes-AMG S-Class”

  1. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Higher and even flat rate prices for batteries is troubling. I believe we have reached the point where the higher car prices have affected the number of vehicles that will be sold new. There are a high number of high-end purchases in the luxury field but the continuation of higher prices and stratospheric rises in prices is the major determination of the SAAR not meeting expectations. The regular guy is being priced out.

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sure would like to see a US map of the Ford dealers not willing to invest in EV’s. I bet you’ll find they will be in rural areas in the North and central part of the US where EVs may not work as well and dont have the same interest. Not surprising but would show the whole picture.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    If battery packs are currently $138 per Kwh and vehicles like the MB on todays show has a 13.1 Kwh pack by 2024 if batteries are below $100 Kwh means the price of that MB could drop a whopping $500. I doubt that can offset inflation.

    Tesla can deny the slowdown but lets not be shocked if they have some reason to stop production this next quarter. Like a chip shortage or lockdown. Any truth to the inventory piling up? Makes you wonder where Reuters is getting its info.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’m not surprised about battery prices going up, with demand increasing several fold over a few years. Mining and processing materials, and battery manufacturing aren’t going to adjust overnight, with EV production increasing at about 50% a year, and EVs using a battery thousands of times the capacity of a smart phone or laptop battery.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    When the new Integra was first introduced, I thought it should have more engine than the 1.5 turbo borrowed from the base Accord and CR-V. Now it will. I’d think it would make sense to offer the “milder” 2.0 turbo, maybe as the base engine. That one uses regular gas in the Accord.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    At some point, all Ford dealers will need to either deal with EVs, or shut down. I suppose a number of the smallest dealers in small towns will just shut down.

  7. Bob Wilson Says:

    Battery demand can ramp up faster than battery mineral mining and refining. Shortages lead to bidding up the cost until mining and refining catch up.

  8. tom XA351GT Says:

    So Lexus is basically making a video game with that manual. it won’t really do anything , but simulate a manual trans ? Why bother when that will more than likely add thousands to the already bloated price of a EV. Save the money and buy a racing simulator console instead.

  9. Wim van Acker Says:

    @2 Good point, I had not thought about that, but it makes total sense.

  10. Warwick DUNDAS Says:

    Sean

    Don’t take the criticism to heart. Your program is far more interesting than the 2 Autonews daily videos combined.

    Keep up the good work. I am a viewer for life.

  11. Roger T Says:

    Manual on Electric cars seem like a great idea, love it! High torque at lower speeds, but higher speeds the pace of acceleration dies down. Gears seems like a great way to do it! Understand the Chevy Volt electric drive had two speed planetary gears, not heard of any other EV with multiple gears outside of conversions. This is freaggin’ cool!

  12. Stryder Says:

    Everybody makes mistakes. As long as you own up to them in a timely manner then it is no harm/ no foul. I have been watching Autoline Daily for years and find that it is the best source of news about the auto industry. Keep up the good work!!!

  13. Dave Says:

    Battery prices going up obviously a supply demand issue but that is average battery prices How about the price of “best practices” ??

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 Porsche Taycan has a two speed gearbox for the rear motor/wheels, I think mainly to get higher top speed.

  15. Bob Wilson Says:

    Battery chemistry research continues but it is no magic bullet. There is a huge gap between lab button cells and manufacturing. High prices helps motivate research that may lead to better batteries in decades.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15 I like LiFePO4 batteries. They have close to the energy density of other types, cost less, and have longer lifetime.

  17. wmb Says:

    It’s incredible that the new Mercedes-AMG S-Class sound like a beast! Yet, with all that power, it’s still behind the Model S Plaid and the Air Sapphire, in the race from 0-to-60. Yes, it spots the those vehicles anywhere from 200 to 400 in horsepower, but all three are really close with regard to torque, at about 1000 pound feet each! The reason became clear when you look at the weight of the AMG, for it is nearly 1000 lbs heavier then the Plaid (~4700) and has about 450 lbs on the Sapphire (~5300). Bottom line is, the perception is that BEVs are way heavier than ICE vehicles, which in most cases are true. The reality is, as modern ICE vehicles get bigger and bigger (in many cases this has to do with federally mandated safety equipment) and with the publics insatiable appetite for CUV and SUVs, the penalty of having an EV with a heavy battery in his floor, may not be as great as it may be made to seem! Sure, for a sports car or sport sedan, a vehicle battery in the vehicles belly, may not cut the mustard. But in everyday driving, how much different will an F-150 Lightning drive, when compared to an F-150 King Ranch platinum (if there is such a thing)? I’m sure this new Mercedes-AMG plug-in S-Class will drive smaller then it is and in feel like it’s 5700+lbs (the AMG EQS clocks in at ~5900), but the fact that this ICE weighs MORE then Plaid and Sapphire is surprising!

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 BEVs like Model S Plaid have immediate power to all four wheels, while the Mercedes would have some delay getting to traction limited power. Also, the Plaid is lighter. The bottom line is that for low speed acceleration, a high powered 4wd EV is hard to beat, but the Mercedes would be much quicker 0-500 miles.

    As far as weight, the AMG S-Class is heavy because it remains a serious ultra luxury car in every way, while the Model S Plaid is more of an electric Charger Hellcat competitor.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    17-18 No doubt the AMG takes a weight hit for having not only a twin turbo V8 but an electric motor and battery pack. I’m not sure how much sense it makes to have both systems. The cost and complexity seems an effort to just get those low 0-60 times as I cant imagine anyone that pays over 100K for a vehicle really is worried about MPG and the hybrid seems gratuitous for the sake of saying its a hybrid with a measly 20 miles of range.
    So it really is just an electric assist launch feature adding weight complexity and cost. I’d like to see how the AMG would do losing about 1000 lbs removing the hybrid features and just having the twin turbo V8. Wouldnt it be silly if it was quicker, got better overall mileage and would cost less. That comparison I would love to see.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 Being a plug-in hybrid, the AMG S will do a lot of peoples’ commutes while using little, if any gas. It looks like a lot of what they are doing, though, is putting a little of their F1 tech in the flagship sedan, for added performance.

    There are no EPA ratings for it yet, but it will be interesting to see how the gas mileage is compared to the non-hybrid S-Class with the 4.0 turbo. The ratings are 16/25, and 19 combined for the current one.

  21. XA351GT Says:

    11 I ‘m pretty sure Electric motors give 100 % torque instantly so I’m not sure what you’re thinking . If anything that would cut the performance . that instant torque is why Tesla’s are so fast off the line. Also it sounds as if there are no actual “gears” involved in this system hence why they said simulated. Kind of like Dodge simulating a exhaust note on their new Charger replacement.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 Electric motors have maximum torque at zero rpm, and the torque decreases linearly from zero rpm to no-load rpm, where the torque is zero.

    High powered EVs like Tesla Plaid have enough power that, with a single gear ratio, acceleration is traction limited up to a fairly high speed. I suspect acceleration of lower power EVs like Bolt, ID.4, etc. could be improved somewhat by using more than one gear ratio, but it wouldn’t be improved enough to be worth the complexity of a multi-ratio gearbox.