Listen to “AAH #679 – Can We Convince You Fuel Cells Have a Future?” on Spreaker.
– Fuel cells have a wide range of applications
– Will a hydrogen infrastructure ever get built out?
– Who’s right: Everyone that’s developing fuel cells or MAN’s CEO who says they won’t be viable until 2035 at the earliest?
PANEL:
Charlie Freese, Executive Director of Global Fuel Cells, General Motors
Lindsay Brooke, Freelance
Gary Vasilash, on Automotive
John McElroy, Autoline.tv
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George Ricci says
John, a couple of years ago you talked with Charlie Freese about hydrogen for cars and he said back then the most likely scenario for hydrogen would be in large trucks. Today he is still saying the same thing.
Toyota, a leading name in the automotive industry, is making a significant pivot. The Japanese automaker has decided to shift its focus in hydrogen fuel-cell technology development from passenger cars to commercial vehicles. https://energynews.biz/toyotas-strategic-shift-towards-hydrogen-powered-commercial-vehicles/
Shell, a major player in the energy industry, has quietly abandoned its plans to construct 48 new light-duty hydrogen filling stations in California. This surprising move comes despite the company being awarded substantial government grants, amounting to $40.6 million, for this very initiative back in 2020. The Oil giant also recently closed five of its existing H2 stations in the state. https://energynews.biz/shell-abandons-california-hydrogen-stations/#:~:text=Shell%2C%20a%20major%20player%20in,very%20initiative%20back%20in%202020.
When asked about the efficiency he said that ICE is in 30% range and that hydrogen fuel cells are in the 60% range. This is very misleading. You have to look at this from cradle to grave to see what is the most efficient. He left out how the hydrogen was made (we don’t have an efficient way to make hydrogen), then you have to compress it or liquefy it (more energy needed).
All hydrogen vehicles are also electric vehicles. All have batteries because the fuel cell can NOT produce enough power instantly for acceleration. Then he made the point when you go downhill you want to capture that energy in a battery so you can reuse it. I will add that just coming to a stop at a stop light, you want to capture that too. Mmmmmm, wouldn’t just be easier to just make an EV?
You asked Charlie who is going to pay to build the hydrogen infrastructure? He said companies. In Cailfornia, the state is spending 400 million dollars of taxpayer money to create a hydrogen refueling infrastructure. There are currently only 55 hydrogen fuel stations, down from 65 just last year.
At 28 minutes into the show Charlie talks about refuel large trucks at a central location like a mine to reduce all the overhead costs. He said making hydrogen at “$1”, he didn’t say what quantity but most of time hydrogen is talked about in Kg. To make green hydrogen it takes 50 KWh of electricity to make 1 Kg. Currently most Californias are paying .40 to .48 per KWh and the Utilities are asking for another rate increase later this year. I know large commercial customer pay less, but not .02 per KWh. Then you have to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi to put it in the tanks on the truck. That takes additional 10 to 12% of the energy you started with. His numbers do NOT add up.
Then the last question that was asked was do we have to go to green hydrogen (zero emissions) or would grey hydrogen (with emissions) be usable alternative. Which he felt grey hydrogen was the way to go. In that case all you end up doing is going from one form of pollution to another form of pollution. Ridiculous!