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Runtime: 10:50
0:00 Tavares Out at Stellantis
1:21 BYD On Track to Be 4th Largest Automaker In 2025
2:33 BYD Makes Tablets for Apple
3:13 BYD Investigated for Worker Abuse in Brazil
4:20 Toyota Upgrades the Supra
5:51 U.S. Military Backing GPS Alternatives
6:35 Stockholm Scraps ICE Ban
7:01 DS Automobiles Reveals New Vehicle Name
7:49 Aramco Takes 10% Stake in Renault & Geely JV
8:16 Diamond Chips Could Improve EVs
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
TAVARES OUT AT STELLANTIS
Sundays are usually slow news days in the auto industry. Not yesterday. Stellantis dropped a bombshell that its CEO, Carlos Tavares, is out after a disruptive year with so many things going wrong. Sales, profits and the stock price have plummeted. Employee morale is at rock bottom. Car dealers, especially in the U.S., are in open revolt against Tavares. So are the UAW and unions in Europe, as well as the Italian government. And suppliers despise the way the company is treating them. So, with all that in mind, seeing Tavares go isn’t really much of a surprise. To us, the real surprise is that the board kept him on when it was obvious things were spiraling out of control. And that suggests the board did not have a plan B. It announced it will form a committee to run the company for now, and will hire a new CEO sometime in the next 6 months.
BYD ON TRACK TO BE 4TH LARGEST AUTOMAKER IN 2025
OK, now over to China where we’re getting early sales reports for November and one set of numbers is going to shock the entire industry. BYD reported sales of just over 504,000 cars for the month, up 67% from last year. That includes over 198,000 BEVs and almost 306,000 PHEVs. BYD’s sales target this year was 3.6 million vehicles, but it’s already past that and actually on track to sell 4.3 million. If it hits that number it’s going to surpass Nissan, Honda and Ford to become the 6th largest automaker in the world. And if BYD could maintain that November sales rate through the rest of next year, it has every chance of surpassing General Motors and Stellantis to become the 4th largest. We’ve been predicting that BYD could become the largest automaker sometime in the next decade. But maybe we were a bit too conservative, because at this rate it could happen before the end of this decade.
BYD MAKES TABLETS FOR APPLE
You know, we’ve heard of Chinese tech companies like Huawei and Xiaomi getting into the car business. But now it’s going the other way. BYD is assembling iPads and making iPhone parts for Apple in China. It has 10,000 engineers and 100,000 workers developing and making tablets and parts for Apple. In fact, BYD also makes phones for Huawei and Xiaomi. Some people say that cars are becoming computers on wheels. But others say, no, they’re actually becoming smart phones on wheels. And having expertise in both phones and cars is turning out to be a very powerful combination.
BYD INVESTIGATED FOR WORKER ABUSE IN BRAZIL
But not everything is going great for BYD. It’s being investigated in Brazil for mistreatment of workers at the assembly plant it’s building there. Almost half the construction workers at the site were brought in from China, and some are reportedly working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, without safety helmets. Bathrooms are also said to be filthy, while living accommodations are cramped and dirty. And there are reports of foremen resorting to violence to get workers to work faster. One problem is that construction is behind schedule, but that doesn’t justify the treatment. BYD blames the issues on one of the three contractor groups it hired to build the plant. And it sounds like the Brazilians working at the site don’t have it that bad.
TOYOTA UPGRADES THE SUPRA
Toyota is making some upgrades to the 6-cylinder version of the Supra. I’m sure, unfortunately for some of you, this does not include any changes to the car’s looks. But if you’re a driving enthusiast, you might be able to appreciate what Toyota has done. It revised shock tuning, added a stiffer front sway bar, gave it stronger rubber bushings and improved body rigidity with a beefier underfloor brace, which changed the chassis characteristics of the car. So, then it slapped on bigger front disc brakes and optimized the electronic power steering, active diff and alignment angles to help reduce understeer and improve handling. Toyota says the upgraded Supra will start launching in the spring of next year. And for our friends in Europe and Japan, you could be able to get your hands on an even more extreme version of the Supra, called the A90 Final Edition, but it will be limited to just 300 examples. Thanks to freeing up airflow in the intake and exhaust, Toyota was able to boost output to nearly 430 horsepower, which is an increase of over 45 horsepower. The car also gets upgrades to the engine oiling and cooling system, bigger brakes, body and suspension tweaks, lighter wheels, stickier tires, aero enhancements and unique styling features. No word on pricing, but it also launches in the spring of next year.
U.S. MILITARY BACKING GPS ALTERNATIVES
GPS is relied upon by many different forms of transportation and a lot of people would be lost without it. But the technology is becoming more vulnerable, so the U.S. military is turning to startups developing quantum technology that can be used as an alternative. The Department of Defense just awarded $11 million to a Colorado-based company called Infleqtion to help develop its quantum positioning technology. While another startup called SandboxAQ, has a contract with the U.S. Air Force to develop its magnetic navigation system, which doesn’t use satellites at all. But it would be a long time before we see any of this tech in consumer products.
STOCKHOLM SCRAPS ICE BAN
Many cities are banning gas-powered cars from driving in downtown areas to help reduce congestion and emissions. At the end of the month, Stockholm, Sweden was planning on only allowing electric cars, some hybrid trucks and fuel-cell vehicles, in a section of the city’s downtown. But that decision was appealed and a county board has rejected Stockholm’s ICE vehicle ban.
DS AUTOMOBILES REVEALS NEW VEHICLE NAME
DS Automobiles, which is part of Stellantis, revealed the name of the concept car that it first teased a few weeks ago. It’s called Number 8. In fact, future models will also adopt the “number” naming strategy. But instead of the word “number,” it will use shorthand with a capital ‘N’ and a little ‘o’ in the corner, like the degree symbol. But in this instance, instead of a little ‘o,’ it used a diamond because DS says it helps symbolize elegance and expertise. The actual number, in this case 8, corresponds with the size and segment of the model. And we’ll be interested to see how close the production car sticks to the concept because that interior is a big styling change.
ARAMCO TAKES 10% STAKE IN RENAULT & GEELY JV
Earlier this year, oil giant Aramco announced plans to buy a 10% stake in HORSE, the powertrain JV between Renault and Geely. And now it’s completed its acquisition of that stake, which is valued at €7.4 billion. In addition to developing next-gen ICE and hybrid powertrains, HORSE will also focus on developing synthetic fuels and lubricants.
DIAMOND CHIPS COULD IMPROVE EVs
Instead of catalytic converters, in the future thieves might be more interested in your car’s computer. A French startup, called Diamfab, is testing semiconductor chips that are made with lab-grown synthetic diamonds. The company says the chips can handle higher voltage and temperature, so they could replace silicon and silicon carbide chips in cars. It expects high-volume production to be ready in about 3 years. As you might expect, diamond chips are more expensive. It didn’t say how much more, but believes the number of chips in a car could be reduced from 1,000-3,000 down to 250-750, which would help lower costs.
And that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for making Autoline a part of your day.
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I don’t think anyone is surprised Carlos stepped down. That was coming for a while now. It will be interesting to see where he ends up later though. Hopefully he learned something and doesn’t run the company he moves to into the ground.
regarding stellantis, hard to feel sorry for greedy manufactures or greedy dealers (stealerships) greed fest is over.
I find it interesting how some people like to call dealerships greedy. They simply operate within the realm of supply and demand. And, as always, the consumer is welcome to shop different dealerships to get the best deal, with many dealerships to choose from.
I also find it interesting that when the price the price of eggs doubles within a couple months time, no one calls the grocery stores greedy. And as gasoline prices fluctuate, no one calls the stations greedy. They set their prices and also operate within the realm of supply and demand. People may complain about the large oil companies and their record profits, but no one throws shade at the gas station owner.
When I first read about BYD, they were an up and coming laptop battery maker. They had ambitions to become a much bigger company and to produce a variety of products. Their next big visit to the spotlight in this country came when Bershire Hathaway made a major investment in BYD soon after they decided to get into the automotive market.
Making components and assembling iPads for Apple seems like the continuation of their original business.
@Autoline team: a €7.4 billion valuation for a 10% equity share in HORSE, the powertrain JV between Renault and Geely, seems very high to me. It is €74 billion for the whole company, while major automotive supplier Continental AG has a market capitalization of €13 billion.
Autoline team: are you sure about the €7.4 BB figure for 10% of HORSE?
theres a difference between inflation and greedflation. the dealers started it then the manufacturers seeing the record profits of the dealers followed suit. now reality is setting in and i have zero sympathy.
I first heard of BYD a few years ago, as a maker of electric buses in California.
GM Veteran – I think your comparisons have a few holes in them. Gas stations are forced to compete because they are literally selling identical products. It would be like every dealer selling identical cars, only with different brand names. In my area of the country, each small city only has one dealer for each brand. For many brands, I have to drive an hour to get to the next nearest dealer for that make. Plus, each dealer belongs to a larger dealer group, which often owns the dealership in the next city as well. Finally, the dealers contribute generously to the politicians re-election campaigns, encouraging them to prevent competition. In some area, Tesla is not allowed to compete and in all areas, Chinese companies are not allowed to compete. You never see the gas station or grocery store chains doing that. Also, unlike gas stations and grocery stores, the price of cars fluctuates for no apparent reason. Supply and demand is understandable, but day of the month? Like many people, I’ve seen a car advertised, come in to the dealership to test drive it and then be told that it has ‘just been sold’ and a higher priced one is the only one available, only to see the original ad at the original price pop up the next day. The fact is that the dealership adds zero value to the shopping experience, but extracts a significant fee. I look forward to the days when they have to make a living on repairs and make nothing on sales.
@Autoline team: I believe I figured it out. According to PRNEWSWIRE: “Aramco has completed its acquisition of a 10% equity stake in Horse Powertrain Limited (“Horse Powertrain”), based on an enterprise value of €7.4 billion.” You thought the 10% stake was acquired for EURO 7.4 billion, but it states that the enterprise value is EURO 7.4 billion. So the 10% stake was purchased for EURO 0.74 billion, EURO 740 million.
Question for the crowd – why wouldn’t someone like Ford (or Stellantis for that matter) that is struggling with EV technology but has factories and dealers around the world, do a full or partial sale or merger with BYD. BYD gets a way around the political limitations. Ford gets state of the art products that it can produce in countries around the world and use to fill out idle factories. A company like Suzuki or Mazda would also be a good candidate if they were not already affiliated with Toyota. Any other largish, international car companies that do not have part ownership by a government?
Good riddance! Where is my Hemi?
BYD might be able to buy Stellantis cheap.
The BYDs we hear about are EVs, but the make a lot of hybrids. How good are those in efficiency and performance compared to Toyota and Honda?
Regarding car buying and dealers, my best car buying experiences, by far, have been buying GM cars using employee/retiree discount with no trade in. I order the car as I want. The price is set, and no fake “document and delivery” fee is allowed.
While I like Toyota hybrids, their buying experience is by far the worst. You can’t order a car, even one made a few hundred miles away. Then, the dealers have bogus add ons, and at least in Florida, the dealers seem to collude, all dealers having similar add ons, so shopping different dealers doesn’t help much.
Well not the least bit surprised to hear about Tavares resigning. That writing has been on the walls for months. I thought they already hired his replacement a month ago or so.
BYD is growing rapidly but in what markets? Everyone that sold cars in China is struggling as their own domestics are taking over. Ford and GM basically pulled out of Europe with not much to offer. It seems they have focused on the money makers trucks and SUVs. So they want to live by the sword they’ll die by the sword. If they don’t get back to offering some entry level vehicles they run the risk of companies like BYD taking their entry level market. The long term effect of that is. If people have a good experience with BYD. It will be just like what happened in the 80s with the Japanese. Buyers bought entry level Honda Toyota and Datsun. Liked them and 10 years later looked for an upper level offering from the same company. Hence the uprising of Lexus, infinity, and Acura. Not to mention larger offerings from the main imports. If Ford and GM are okay with being just truck manufacturers and large SUVs and only splitting 15% of the US market then continue down this path. Even without ice bans the US automakers had better start looking at the bigger longer picture.
Well not the least bit surprised to hear about Tavares resigning. That writing has been on the walls for months. I thought they already hired his replacement a month ago or so.
BYD is growing rapidly but in what markets? Everyone that imported cars in China is struggling as their own domestics are taking over. Ford and GM basically pulled out of China and Europe with not much to offer. It seems they have focused on the money makers trucks and SUVs. So they want to live by the sword they’ll die by the sword. If they don’t get back to offering some entry level vehicles they run the risk of companies like BYD taking their entry level market. The long term effect of that is. If people have a good experience with BYD. It will be just like what happened in the 80s with the Japanese. Buyers bought entry level Honda Toyota and Datsun. Liked them and 10 years later looked for an upper level offering from the same company. Hence the uprising of Lexus, infinity, and Acura. Not to mention larger offerings from the main imports. If Ford and GM are okay with being just truck manufacturers and large SUVs and only splitting 15% of the US market then continue down this path. Even without ice bans the US automakers had better start looking at the bigger longer picture.
BYD is in about every market, except US and Canada, both of which have 100% tariffs on EVs from China. I suspect BYD would expect the tariffs on their ICE and hybrids too, so they haven’t entered those North American markets.
Lambo,
It is a well worn path. Honda/Toyota/Nissan started by making clunky cheap cars that everyone laughed at but bought because they were cheap and reliable. Over time they refined them into something that everyone liked while still maintaining reliability. Now they are more expensive than domestics but everyone still wants them because they are a very refined car that will be reliable where as they see the domestics as being maybe equal to less refined but certainly less reliable.
20 years after Toyota/Honda first entered the market, Along comes Hyundai Kia to repeat the process down the exact same path. Their first offerings were clunky and not that good. But they were cheap so people bought them. Over time they have refined them to the point that people think H/K vehicles are a reasonable alternative to a Toyota. The price has steadily climbed as this refinement path continues and they will once again be more expensive than the domestics it won’t matter because people will perceive H/K vehicles to be worth the extra cost.
Almost right on cue, here comes BYD to repeat the process again. 20-30 years later it will be someone else repeating the exact same process as BYD refines and becomes expensive. The cycle will continue unless the domestic and japanese OEMs disrupt it. They can only disrupt it by offering competitive cheap products that outdo the likes of BYD. BYD products, when you see them in person, have an initial wow factor but it wears thin really quickly as that veneer fades. The OEMs only have to have a cheap car that has initial wow factor, loaded with cheap tech, that doesnt degrade if you leave it out in the sun like a BYD does.